DOOR GUNNERS PAY

#1
WHY DO DOOR GUNNERS NOT GET PAID FLYING PAY AND DO YOU NOT THINK ITS ABOUT TIME THEY MADE IT A TRADE?
INSTEAD OF A COUPLE YEARS FLYING THEN BACK TO THE GROUND LOOK AT ALL THE EXPERIENCE THEY LOSE!!
 
#2
Simple really, flying pay is for those who sit in the front and fly.

As for making it a trade, surely there would have to be something comparable in civi strasse. Nope, nothing springs to mind here!

As for the experience they lose, rubbish!
How long does it take to be competent at door gunning? A couple of range days?
Above that, the knowledge levels off and all are at the same level. Unlike actual flying, experience in sitting in the back of an aircraft, firing a gun and sliding a door does not vastly improve the person in time.

I would have thought anyone getting to be a doorgunner for a couple of years, out of the sigs/groundie world, should think themselves lucky in what they are doing at the time and not start to gripe when told they have to go back to normal AAC soldiering.
Too late mate, you should have made the most of it while you could!


If you really want to compare it to anything in the real world, paramedics on some air ambulances are only allowed a 6 month post!
When the a/c is down or the weather is bad, they go back to the road ambulances.
 
#3
I know what your saying silsoe .We don't fly them but we get more involved in stuff know like planning routes doing the met brief theRAF rear crew get paid so why not us? :(
 
#4
Is there any sort of "danger money" element to flying pay (covering increased insurance premiums)? At the very least, rear aircrewmen should be entitled to that IMO.
 
#5
Why not give Door Gunners more money? Aircrew who fly desks get paid it. Surely everyone who see's fit to mince round in a flying suit all day deserves extra money, to help pay for their treatment!!!
 
#6
SilsoeSid said:
As for making it a trade, surely there would have to be something comparable in civi strasse. Nope, nothing springs to mind here!
Like a Tank commander? MLRS battery commander? Pathfinder? SAS trooper? match them in Civ Div?
 
#7
The Door gunners now have to be submitted to a long course. Ask any Lynx pilot to fly on ops without one.
 
#9
Deathfromabove said:
I know what your saying silsoe .We don't fly them but we get more involved in stuff know like planning routes doing the met brief theRAF rear crew get paid so why not us? :(
Not in 3 or 4 Regt they don't fella. Not that i reckon them not getting paid is fair though, and as for the comparable to civi street jobs, front seat crews don't get given a licence, so i guess it just comes down to the headshed being a bunch of tightcnuts as usual.
 
#10
totally agree with you death from above my little slightly chunky friend :D but ave you checked your last statement you my have some extra beer tokens there ( all be jpa)
 
#11
Hmm... does the Lynx have a crew chief like our birds do? He'd be an NCO responsible for aircraft maintenance who also doubles as a gunner. The other door is manned by an augmentee (usually a lower enlisted infantryman on a temporary assignment.) Our flight pay is based on being in an assigned slot and having met a requisite number of hours for the month so flight medics, crew chiefs, pilots, and door gunners all receive it as long as they gert the blade time.
 

Ralf

War Hero
#13
Khyros said:
Hmm... does the Lynx have a crew chief like our birds do? He'd be an NCO responsible for aircraft maintenance who also doubles as a gunner. The other door is manned by an augmentee (usually a lower enlisted infantryman on a temporary assignment.) Our flight pay is based on being in an assigned slot and having met a requisite number of hours for the month so flight medics, crew chiefs, pilots, and door gunners all receive it as long as they gert the blade time.
Nope nor do we talk funny, wear flags back to front, have a toss potfor pres/PM "oo er em" ...ho yes we do....But least of all we dont shoot the same side!! :x
 
#14
Ralf said:
Nope nor do we talk funny, wear flags back to front, have a toss potfor pres/PM "oo er em" ...ho yes we do....But least of all we dont shoot the same side!! :x
Snore.

Khyros,

I think the closest think we have to a crew chief is the loadmaster.

Others, more versed than I will tell you about them, I'm sure.
 
#15
Thanks Gingwar...

Our military has two sorts of loadmasters... US Army has a school of that name which personnel from all types of units attend to learn how to properly load aircraft and the USAF has a specific job title called that for a crew member on transports such as the C-17.
 
#16
DFA,

OK, I assume you are in 5 Regt from the "well we have to do it a 5 regt mate" statement!
I realise that I have also to type slowly to make it easier for you to read! :wink:

Let me tell you that any planning that you think you may be doing out there, is probably already etched into the brain of the front seat Gods who drive you around while you sit with your feet up trying to keep warm in the back and you are being made to feel as if you contribute more than you really do.
As for having to give the met brief, I take it that consists of reading out the TAF, METAR, 215 etc. :roll: Any numpty can do that, the pilots listen to you, despite having already read it, because it is part of the mission brief yet can interpret what is going on with the weather, because they understand it.

As for the comparable to civi street jobs, getting 'tracked vehicles' added to your driving licence is hardly the same as obtaining a Commercial Flying Licence (ATPL or CPL), which as you say is not 'given' to the front seat Gods, however credits are given for the graduation from a Wings course. Notice, plural, and not singular from an in house course!

From personal experience the Austrian Air Force also have the engineers as rear crew who not only service the a/c as their own, but also are qualified in other roles such as loadie, gunner, medic, gofer etc. I think you'll find that to be the case in the majority of those in a role similar to yours. So therefore you are vastly underqualified to be demanding flying pay!

Like I said before, just enjoy the swan while you can and also remember not to upset your fellow groundie mates while doing it, because after all, that's all you really are!
 
#18
Sid,

Agreed that the guys driving have had to pass a rigorous course in order to get their wings, and they rightly deserve full flying pay. However, forgive me for saying but you come across as one of those sky-gods who really believe they deserve the title, anyone else just being "a groundie" and therefore unimportant. Maybe I misread your comments, but the last line of the last paragraph seems quite clear that you don't have much regard for the rest of the team.

Is being a member of an aircraft crew a hazardous duty or not? Surely that is the question that should determine whether Flying Pay should be paid, albeit at a lower rate for the less qualified.
 
#19
right said fred - sorry - well said fred couldnt agree with ya more - it is a priv to fly but there is an element of danger there (mainly young orrifficerssssssss) there my fave :D
 
#20
Deathfromabove said:
WHY DO DOOR GUNNERS NOT GET PAID FLYING PAY AND DO YOU NOT THINK ITS ABOUT TIME THEY MADE IT A TRADE?
INSTEAD OF A COUPLE YEARS FLYING THEN BACK TO THE GROUND LOOK AT ALL THE EXPERIENCE THEY LOSE!!
I'm all for it, but only if they introduce passenger pay.
 

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