Done my time but no pension

Hi guys this is a copy of a similar thread that I placed in the RHQ forum earlier today I haven't had any responses so I thought I'd try the "backbone" to see if there is any advise.

I'm new to this so please have patience with me.

I've just finished what I believed was 22 years in the Infantry only to have JPA phone me and tell me yestreday afternoon that "You're one day short of qualifying for a pension." I was told that the matter is being looked at by a "Major in Worthy Down" who is emailing Kentigern House to try and resolve the matter. JPA's hands are tied and there is "nothing we can do". They can't give me contact details for the "Major in Worthy Down" neither can they tell me what date I should have finished or indeed what dates they have for my start and end of service. The ironic thing is that they also say that I was paid for four extra days beyond my run out date and they will be writing to me to ask me to to return that money, I can't confirm these extra days as I have not received a pay statement detailing this payment.

I'm at a loss as to how this happened I did have broken service but my pension qualfying date was amended to be 27 May 1985 until the 26 may 2007 this information was recieved from JPA by my regimental clerks and thus my leaving dates were arranged as a result of this. I have spoken to these clerks and they say they wil look at the matter on Monday so it looks like a worrying weekend for myself and the family. Just to clarify the "Reckonable Service Date" on my pay statements is 27 May 1985. Does anyone have any advise or has anyone heard of a similar incident.
Give it a couple of days for channels to react, then start with your MP. Worst that could happen is spending a morning somewhere drawing kit, then the afternoon handing it back. :)

NB No REMF will be at fault.
Not what you need or expect after serving your country for this long. Your RAO should hang his head in shame and hopefully you will get this sorted and apology rapidly next week. Keep us informed how it goes and hopefully when all the pay Guru's get back from copious ammounts of alcohol abuse they will help you out.
Just wondered how did your resettlement and gardening leave go? Surely you handed your kit in before the said date and was just pottering around so the extra day shouldnt make a difference and just a paper fcuk up.
Speak to your old chain of command but start it at the highest level you can get away with - the RSM as a minimum should be a start (RCMO if you have/had one). They can get the answers to your questions direct from APC. Remember that different departments in Glasgow have very little contact with each other but they should know the correct people to speak to.

Failing that speak to APC yourself. Thay are not all the t*ssers that people think they are and will be willing to help.
Something like this happened to a lad in my unit just before jpa came in
his reckonable service date was 22years from when he signed his life over to the army, however he did not start training until a couple of weeks after so it ment he was short of his pension by 2 weeks. luckily for him this was seen while they had time to do something about it.

I am not saying this is what has happened to you but it could be a possibility.

Good luck and i hope you get sorted with out to much off a fight.
Thanks for the replies guys I've taken your advise and spoke to the RCMO who will start things moving from his end on Monday. If I get no luck via him then I'll spk to the CO. We'll see and I will post updates.

As for my resettlement the bizarre thing is I was long gone from the unit before my discharge date on courses, work experience etc. Just popped in for final med and to check that the clk's had begun to process paperwork. Which they had. Based on dates supplied by JPA (incompetent clowns) and not me.

I'm relatively confident that I'm on good grounds legally as I've always understood that I had a 22 yr contract with the army and they have just discarged me a day early (if that is the case). I didn't sign off as such just left on the date they told me that my time run out. Having said that at 2am in the morning the doubts creep in.

I suppose as much as anything else its a warning to all do not trust JPA, clks etc (afeter 22 yrs you would think that I'd know better but when the dates read right you accept them) if you have broken servce history, spent time in the slammer then check and check again I'm lucky I was relatively senior and when i kick up a fuss people listen (even now i'm out) others might not have that advantage .


Anyone know how I can spk to APC or Glasgow myself I cant get phone no's from anyone at the mo except JPA and I have difficulty not going off on one with them.
Dont mean to steal the lads thunder, anyone know the score on rejoiners pensions?

I did 6 years and got out 18 months ago and am trying to re-join. I just wondered if my 22 years will resume again, so when I have completed my time I can still qualify for a full pension.

The ACIO just said it needs to be discussed when I eventually get to rejoin, but would like to know before hand.
I think that when you phone the JPAC helpline and speak to someone in their discharge section, they are exactly the same people who used to work in the APC Glasgow discharge wing, just with a different job title. I have always found them helpful and full of useful advice. Try phoning the JPAC Helpline and speaking to one of the girls in their discharge section. Try not to loose it with them, remain polite and you will be amazed at how helpful they can be. Good Luck
I joined as a Junior Leader so my adult service did not start until my eighteenth birthday. My discharge date from the army is the day before my fortieth birthday, therefore, I will have served a day short of 22 years. I reckon that your length of service is only meant to be 21 years and 364 days so you have nothing to worry about. Good luck anyway.
F9_Commit said:
I joined as a Junior Leader so my adult service did not start until my eighteenth birthday. My discharge date from the army is the day before my fortieth birthday, therefore, I will have served a day short of 22 years. I reckon that your length of service is only meant to be 21 years and 364 days so you have nothing to worry about. Good luck anyway.
I concur, my original engagement would have left me 1 day short of 22 years, and never been in the brown stuff to confuse the issue. I really wouldn't worry too much about this (easy to say I know) because there is provision under all 3 services terms and conditions for you to leave up to 91 days earlier than your 22 years with no loss of pension, a day is hardly a problem. I suspect its just the prats at JPA being "bureaucratic"
I am absolutely astonished that your reckonable service from age 18 or date of enlistment whichever is the later should have been miscalculated by a single day. It seems to me that someone has been counting on his fingers!

I am equally amazed that no-one had been jailed for it!

You can say what you like about the old system of the Regimental Part 2 Order Clerk with an SO book, pocket calculator diary, and olivetti typewriter manually calculating the man's service, entitlement and SOS date - it bloody well worked and worked well.

A smaller Army the fraction of the size it was in the 1980s, a completely reorganised system of administration and computerised networks and this sort of thing happens!

If there is one thing that is absolutely taboo and that is to bugger a man about on his discharge because when he sits in the pub months later talking to youngsters about the Army you can guarantee that it is his final few weeks being arrsed around at a most vulnerable stage of his life that he remembers rather than the good times he had in Cyprus, Kenya and elsewhere!
Gentlemen an update.

My ex RCMO confirmed with the RAO that my dates are correct, the dates were placed on UNICOM by what was called manning and records and although I did have broken service that was accounted for when I rejoined and my “reckonable service date” was subsequently adjusted. The UNICOM held dates were acknowledged by JPA during the Army changeover to the new system earlier this year.

Unfortunately JPA refused to speak to anyone from my ex unit as I am now a civilian and their guidelines do not allow them to give information about former soldiers to their former units! So they won’t tell me or my former unit what is going on. Great

I have made further phone calls to JPA who consistently follow the line that they can give me no further information and that they are waiting for the anonymous Major in Worthy Down to clarify the matter. I have written to JPA via their email complaints address, in this email I detailed my case, my concerns and asked for contact details of somebody who can speak with authority on the matter to me. I have received what appears to be a stock “We have received your email and will pass it on” answer. A copy of the email has been passed to my MP and I will pass on further details to him as and when (if) JPA provide them. I await a response from my MP at present though his constituency office were very interested.

I have made initial enquiries with an employment lawyer who (once he had stopped salivating at the opportunity the MOD had provided) suggested that if JPA fail to reply to my email in a constructive manner within a reasonable timescale a writ should be issued to the Secretary of State for Defence. I am trying to decide what is an a reasonable timescale.

As for the JPA staff I feel very sorry for them they are put in a position where all they are allowed to do is issue an email request and subsequently read you the reply. They do not appear to be the original people who worked in APC but are rather call centre trained personnel. Even when you speak to a supervisor all they can do is simply place a more urgent request but if the request is not answered by the relevant department there is nothing JPA staff can do.

Thank you for the messages of support. I will keep you informed.
Just to re-cap they wont talk to either party who can put the record straight ( you and your previous unit) its unbelievable.
Unfortunately Ned you are the guinnea pig in this JPA fiasco (hopefully it will be sorted by 2010) hope everything goes well for you sooner than later.
If you are just a day or so short of the time remind the powers that be that you have served for at least 5 leap years so really they owe you days not the other way round

1st - sorry about the screw up.

Going on what I read, I rang JPA to confirm that all was well for my upcoming discharge which is in 2 months and they promptly said that I was 1 month short of getting a full pension! Luckily I am still serving and and also have a good admin office who quickly got onto the case. The issue was the young lady at JPA who had obviously just moved from the Yes Car Credit call centre job was reading the wrong date, which is not her fault just the system is going for what is obviously a cheap and underfunded option.

The moral of the story is for those who are in there last year, ring JPA and confirm you have enough service for a full pension.

Ned - please take some comfort in highlighting to futúre retirees the need to ring JPA prior to their discharge and that the days of the gold ol' Regimental Clerk have gone.

A further update. On Wednesday via friends of a friend I managed to procure a phone number for MCM Div and spoke to a very helpful person who told me they would look at the situation.

Four hours later this person phoned me and advised me that the problem had now been rectified and JPA had been told to amend my service dates to reflect 22 years. I should expect a payment within the next month and if it was not received to contact this person again. I was pleasantly surprised.

Thursday my former RCMO, who has been solid in his assistance throughout, phoned me and told me that the payment would be in the bank Friday we had a quick chat and he realized that he had not been told which Friday. I was now happy and not bothered which Friday it would be as long was on its way.

I’m not sure if it was the email and its promises of legal action and getting the MP involved, MCM Div or my former unit kicking up a fuss that caused such a quick reaction but it may be worth remembering for others who find themselves in similar situations. By the way I have been told that this has happened to a large numbers of soldiers who have left in the last two months.

Today I checked my bank account first thing and there is the full lump sum payment (so pretty I may just print the statement and frame it) paid today. Thinking that was the end of it and my contact with JPA was ended (Pensions are now my POC should there be an issue with the monthly payment) I was surprised to receive a phone call from JPA and to be informed that as I had been paid four (or is it now three the poor sod wasn’t sure) days too many they would be deducting the sum, gross of tax, from my lump sum payment. Rather foolishly I told them that my lump sum had been paid (via them) and they replied that they will then write to me and ask me to repay the amount. I look forward to the letter. Any suggestions for my reply? I’m considering telling them I will have to wait ten working days before I look at the matter.

Again thanks for your support and suggestions

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