Doing the Lynndie Hop...

#1
well see that Lynndie's mouthpieces have decided to cut their losses and cop a plea..

Pte. England has ' decided 'to plead guilty to ' reduced charges ' and take her lumps... While she was eligible for 11 to 16 yuears in the pokey , likely she'll get only 30 months having come ' clean ' on the Abu Ghraib fiasco..
blamed it on her former boyfriend and others who knew better, she also claimed ' diminished capacity' as she has a ' history of mental-health problems ' and ' learning disabilities ' [ apparently not a prohibiting factor to enlisting in the US armed forces ]..

so, I guess its prison grey instead of dress green, some time to reflect and write her memoirs/exposes, sign for a book deal, movie of the week [ Paris Hilton to play Lynndie hmm? ] and a radio talk show, perhaps on 'coming out ' a al Martha Stewart?

won't be posing for Playboy, I suppose, though her lawyer would look real cute all airbrushed and with a staple in her navel..

well, that case is closed then..gues we can move on to the US shooting of the Italian ' Secret Agent ' now....
 
#2
I missread the subject as "hoop" not "hop". How dissapointing...
 
#4
My reading is that the poor cow had a bit of a rough deal. She seems to be some sort of 'good ole girl' who would naturally get roped in to any bit of a joke that was going - maybe even couple sandwiches short of picnic. The dog leash picture is an example. What does it prove other than that one bloke was on a lead for as long as it took to shoot off an exposure? In context, I'll bet there were more significant wrongs going on. The whole nick was run on dodgy lines. Also, why these low rankers going down when little seems to have been done to the CWO and officers?
 
#5
The real story of abu gharab was that bored MP's on the night shift invented activities to pass the time. None of this stuff occured during the day shift which would happen if it was sanctioned activity. Once the pic's got out and the reservists saw they were in trouble they tried to rope in the chain of command. All the soldiers involved pleaded guilty[plea bargain] or were convicted. Lindy is known to have had sex with most of her co-workers hence my initial comment.
 
#6
tomahawk6 said:
The real story of abu gharab was that bored MP's on the night shift invented activities to pass the time. None of this stuff occured during the day shift which would happen if it was sanctioned activity. Once the pic's got out and the reservists saw they were in trouble they tried to rope in the chain of command. All the soldiers involved pleaded guilty[plea bargain] or were convicted. Lindy is known to have had sex with most of her co-workers hence my initial comment.
Should chain of command not be roped in if the night staff were able to do this sort of thing? Command and control is surely 24/7 activity?
 
#7
tomahawk6 said:
Had you served with her you would have seen her hoop.
Something you want to tell us, Tom?.. :D
 
#9
The chain of command would be responsible if they had issued orders to abuse prisoners. They didnt as a result they werent held to account - except BG Karpinski the MP brigade commander.
 
#10
Tom that is just plain bollox. The entire chain of command up and down is responsible. If the Brigadier knew about it then all the way down the chain of command must have known about it. Brigadier Generals do not issue orders direct to those at the coal face. To suggest otherwise calls into question your sanity. Either she knew and so did the commanders below her or she knew nothing – you know how the chain of command works.

And if a Brigadier knows about it then those at the very top would know about it. This is a cover up and these people, although deserving of punishment are being made scapegoats for the abject failure of the command element to keep a tight reign on things.
 
#11
Ord_Sgt said:
Tom that is just plain bollox. The entire chain of command up and down is responsible. If the Brigadier knew about it then all the way down the chain of command must have known about it. Brigadier Generals do not issue orders direct to those at the coal face. To suggest otherwise calls into question your sanity. Either she knew and so did the commanders below her or she knew nothing – you know how the chain of command works.

And if a Brigadier knows about it then those at the very top would know about it. This is a cover up and these people, although deserving of punishment are being made scapegoats for the abject failure of the command element to keep a tight reign on things.
I hear Mulder and the X-Files theme song 8O
 
#12
Not really mate – either she knew (Brigadier forget her name) – which is what DoD is saying in which case a whole lot of other people had to have known. Or as she maintains she didn’t know. Either these solders acted on their own and their commanders failed in their duty or more knew about what was really going on. You can’t have it both ways.
 
#13
One of my Sgt's at work, was in the same unit as England. In fact, stationed in the prison when all of this was going on. According to him, England and the others were a "rogue crowd," and "out of hand." As Tomahawk said, it didn't occur with anyone else, at any other time.

England is NOT some poor victim of her boyfriend, etc. She knew full well what the hell she was doing. As a typical criminal, when caught, she comes up with all kinds of reasons, etc as to why she should spend years in prison. Its a typical BS story, which, to most, doesn't hold water.
 
#14
Ord_Sgt said:
Not really mate – either she knew (Brigadier forget her name) – which is what DoD is saying in which case a whole lot of other people had to have known. Or as she maintains she didn’t know. Either these solders acted on their own and their commanders failed in their duty or more knew about what was really going on. You can’t have it both ways.
I fcuked a Korean whore on my commanders desk after lights out. Does that mean if she screamed rape he knew???
 
#15
Ctauch that’s not what I mean and you know it. These people systematically carried out these acts – it was not a one off by an individual. Now SNCOs are supposed to supervise their solders – where are the SNCOs who were in charge of these people? When I was in I knew pretty much most of what was going on with my solders through the JNCOs. If these solders acted alone then their Commanders failed in their duty of command and ALSO need to be brought to account. Or as I alluded to others knew what was happening.

I agree that these people are criminals but Command carries responsibility – in this case there was a serious failure. What is being done about it?
 
#16
Ord,
they were reservist, TA, part time troopers (the lot of them). Not making excuses, but them be the facts. they acted alone out of boredom and stupidity. The day shift and command was sleeping.

BTW Lynndie was shagging a SNCO. "Sir shag the troll" was a E-6 Staff Sgt. A E-7 (next step up) is a Plt Sgt. E-8 is a Company/First Sgt. The fecker sticking it to the inbred munter was senior not only to her bt most of if not all the guards on night duty.He was also in the position to cover up the occurances in the blotter (reports)
 
#17
Thanks for that, so where was the E-8 Company/First Sgt? This is the guy who should have spotted it earlier. Not sure if this was an organisational difference we would not leave the equivalent of a Cpl entirely unsupervised every night. Don’t take that as a us vs you point I’m just trying to see where it all went wrong.

I’m not aimlessly trying to sling mud here just looking for answers where things don’t appear to add up – in particular the failure of local commanders to pick up on this earlier. Also I find the blaming of the Brigadier by the DoD incompatible with the apparent facts. The chain of command simply does not allow for the BG to know without others also knowing so why are the DoD doing so. You could take my earlier logic of commanders are supposed to know but by definition all up and down the chain of command are equally to blame.

Really not trying to raise tempers or anything and I’m not sure if I’m articulating this correctly but I just can’t help feeling something is not quite right.
 
#18
ctauch said:
Ord_Sgt said:
Not really mate – either she knew (Brigadier forget her name) – which is what DoD is saying in which case a whole lot of other people had to have known. Or as she maintains she didn’t know. Either these solders acted on their own and their commanders failed in their duty or more knew about what was really going on. You can’t have it both ways.
I fcuked a Korean whore on my commanders desk after lights out. Does that mean if she screamed rape he knew???
He should have known that whores were being introduced into barracks (instead of at the Stables where they belonged). He should have known they and you were absent from place of parade after lights out.
He should have known that people were using his office for such purposes. Back in the times you refer to, it was still considered to be the bosses job to know EVERYTHING that was going on - if he didn't, it was the big badge man's job to tell him.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#19
tomahawk6 said:
The real story of abu gharab was that bored MP's on the night shift invented activities to pass the time. None of this stuff occured during the day shift which would happen if it was sanctioned activity. Once the pic's got out and the reservists saw they were in trouble they tried to rope in the chain of command. All the soldiers involved pleaded guilty[plea bargain] or were convicted. Lindy is known to have had sex with most of her co-workers hence my initial comment.
Excuse me?..."Rope in the chain of command?" ....T-6 you obviously haven't listened to Brigadier Karpinski's interview with the BBC's Michael Buerk.

She - the US Army one star in charge (theoretically) - was sidelined by the incoming General with orders to implement a "Gitmo-ized" operation. There were parts of Abu Ghraib where she was not allowed to step.

The thrust coming from the top of the US Army chain of command was patently:
' We want actionable intel and we don't want to know how you get it. Just do it. '


Miss West Virginia 2004 is the sacrificial goat in this pantomime.

The reason they haven't tried Janet Karpinski is because they know damn well that her testimony would implicate Sanchez and possibly Rumsfeld.

Another victory for US justice ? Or another dumb-ass pfc carrying the can for people who definitily knew better ?

Lee Shaver
 
#20
Taking a slightly different angle, the real guilty people in this whole incident are.....the feckin media. Not attempting to condone the behaviour in any way - but I do think the press coverage caused it to spiral out of control and has had bigger repercussions than the politically correct twats will admit.

I often wonder how much damage CNN and co's 24/7 coverage of this particular and other similar (true or not) incidents has caused, both short and long term.

How many Iraqis and other foreigners did it wind up to the point that they joined the insurgency - and subsequently, how many troops have been killed and blown up becasue of it.

The Western Media is self destructive, the bunch of grade A *******. They are now bringing it all up again for the world to see, by constant coverage of the trial, with a "quick recap" every 5 minutes, lest the insurgents recruitment seems to be taking a dive.

I hope that they hurry it up, get her convicted, minimise the press shite and shut it up fast.
 
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