Doing a job 2 ranks above my own rank.

#1
I am an Infantry Sjt, holding the appointment of MTWO in an Armoured Infantry Battalion. I have held this appointment now for 15 months. I was reported on in my last CR as holding this appointment, and carrying out this job on Operations. My CR was an A Grade, with a strong promotion recommendation. The CO placed me in the top 10 Sjts on which he reports on. Things were looking bright to say the least. My last CR was the 5th A grade CR and the 4th one recommending me for promotion. I thought this was all very well, a Sjt doing a Warrant Officers job. Six years seniority in current rank, there is me thinking I should be in line for promotion.
A few weeks ago I discovered that my job LSN is being held by an Acting WOII on the "black economy" This only came to light in my units preparation for JPA. Dont really know if this affects anything?
Then comes the showstopper!!! The results of the promotion board have been published on the Armynet, and yes you have guessed it. I did not get selected for promotion! ( I am currently away from my unit on a course)
This is not so much a case of sour grapes, more a question as to what my options are. My Boss, has said not to worry, the CoC are addressing it. What ever that means?
I enter the last 2 years of my service in October this year, so I do not have time on my hands. So next years board is "too little too late".
I have been told in the past year that I cannot get pay of higher rank, as the appointment is 2 ranks up from mine, also I cannot claim pay of higher rank of CSjt for the same reason.
Our RCMO is currently out of station on course, so I have not had any contact with him regarding my options.

Any constructive advice will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 
#2
Had the same f**ked up problem!
I'm a Cpl who did a Sgt's job for 10 months whilst the post was gapped.

When I asked for POHR I was royally Shafted as there were 2 Sgt's on the Black Economy (rarely saw them though) but because they were officially "on the books" I was told to wind my neck in and just enjoy the experience!

If there is someone on the books then you cannot get the xtra pay!
 
#4
If you have only two years left then why would they promote you? You would be taking up a post of someone who has longer to run.

I understand your problem as I was told to take redundancy in the 90s but refused, so spent 8 years marking time.

It is career length they look at not you.
 
#5
You certainly should get pay of higher rank one up.

For payment of such, it is COs discretion/auth for first 6mths.
Then needs to go to Bde for the the 6-12mths period
Over 12mths, questions should have been raised asking why someone is doing the job and hasn't been promoted.

Your case is strengthened by the fact you are doing the job two up and the job is refered to in the CR.

Unless you have some right stinking corpses following you that you are not telling us about, I think you are within your rights to ask some hard questions of the CO. Try for a formal interview as a first port of call.
 
#6
dmi2480 said:
I enter the last 2 years of my service in October this year, so I do not have time on my hands. So next years board is "too little too late
From October start looking and preparing for your second career. The last two years will fly by and when its time to leave -f not prepared - you will be accounting for fuel and tyres and not a good job with prospects.

12 months after you leave you will be a 'Who?' and not a prospect for promotion!
 
#7
The ruling regarding residual service has changed recently in effect you can get promoted as long as you have more than 12 months service as opposed to the previous ruling of 24 months.
 
#8
So you can now get promoted in your last 2 years and then have even less time to concentrate on resettlement?

Do you still get a pension in the last rank you held irrespective of the time you have held it and does it count if you are not substansive? Presuming that you have completed 22 years +
 
#9
WasMe said:
So you can now get promoted in your last 2 years and then have even less time to concentrate on resettlement?

Do you still get a pension in the last rank you held irrespective of the time you have held it and does it count if you are not substansive? Presuming that you have completed 22 years +
What the fcuk do you want out of life. FFS how many miles have you taken when someone has offered you an inch.

You still have to complete 24 months in substansive rank to gain the pension. Acting or local rank has never counted towards the pension.

Are you advocating doing feck all work after your twenty year point?
 
#10
bazp said:
Had the same f**ked up problem!
I'm a Cpl who did a Sgt's job for 10 months whilst the post was gapped.

When I asked for POHR I was royally Shafted as there were 2 Sgt's on the Black Economy (rarely saw them though) but because they were officially "on the books" I was told to wind my neck in and just enjoy the experience!

If there is someone on the books then you cannot get the xtra pay!
You've been stitched there pal!

I'm a SSgt, at my last post my Tp OC was fresh from Sandhurst, so had to go away on his Tp Cmds course (3 months or so), then he volunteered to do pre para + P Coy(another 2 and a bit months).

After the allotted time (I think its 18 days), off I went to the admin office and put in for substitution pay. They can only pay you 1 rank up, so even though a Non Commissioned Troop Commander is supposed to be a WO1, I got WO2 pay instead.

So the answer is, get a grip of your Chief Clerk. He should be working to help YOU, not to keep you in the dark.
 
#11
I think WasMe has hit the nail on the head so to speak. You should push to be paid for the job you are doing but you must look ahead to your resettlment and grip it with both hands. I left in Jan this year after 23 years and was lucky enough to be able to do all my resettlment. They might still be offering you the carrot but I think most who are now out will tell you that to the CO etc you are just a number and a distant memory after you have left. Sad but true.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
Many times as a buckshee in an inf Bn I was tasked with roles far above my rank, ARF LO at Brigade looking after Lts from the ARF etc. Often I ran Ops rooms apparently a sgts job but no sniff. Just got on with it. I was senior soldier on quals and service for a long time and had to look after a section of others or even lead patrols but never any HD pay. I gave up asking for plain clothes allowance and shaved my head.
 
#13
dingerr said:
WasMe said:
So you can now get promoted in your last 2 years and then have even less time to concentrate on resettlement?

Do you still get a pension in the last rank you held irrespective of the time you have held it and does it count if you are not substansive? Presuming that you have completed 22 years +
What the fcuk do you want out of life. FFS how many miles have you taken when someone has offered you an inch.

You still have to complete 24 months in substansive rank to gain the pension. Acting or local rank has never counted towards the pension.

Are you advocating doing feck all work after your twenty year point?
What I am saying is...................Look to the future. Worrying about not getting promoted in your last 2 years is not good. LOOK TO THE FUTURE! Instead of worrying about who has what, worry about what you will have in three years!

You still have to complete 24 months in substansive rank to gain the pension. Acting or local rank has never counted towards the pension. This is my point exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
A good mate finished his 22 detached to an SF unit in the stores. he as a full screw covered the IO job (a Captain) for 6 months on ops. He didnt get anything as his promotion was barred due to injuries in service but all who he worked for were impressed. It did however make him more rounded and willing to take on tasks above what the army had deemed him capable of in his pay packet!
 
#15
Many thanks for the replies. Im back to my unit from wednesday. My first port of call will be my OC, demanding a CO interview. Will keep you posted as to what he says, or promises. I wont be holding my breath for fear of suffocation.
 
#16
If the situation is as you describe it (and I've no reason to doubt it) then you are 100% guaranteed, no shit, gen dit entitled to Substitution Pay for the rank of SSgt (I assume that's the next one up, you Infantry types have some weird ranks sometimes). I'll quote you chapter and verse from the relevant JSP when I get into work tomorrow, since we're all singing from the same JPA regs now, you are definitely entitled to the pay NOW. Luckily, since I work in a Joint Service Admin Office and my Chief Clerk is an Army SSgt, I'll get him to see if you were also entitled to it pre-JPA, I strongly suspect you were. Watch this space.
 
#17
dmi2480 said:
Many thanks for the replies. Im back to my unit from wednesday. My first port of call will be my OC, demanding a CO interview. Will keep you posted as to what he says, or promises. I wont be holding my breath for fear of suffocation.
Good luck fella. Remember, this is only your FIRST CAREER, your next one, about 25 years long, is just around the corner.
 
#18
Ok, the regs are all laid out in JSP 754, you can view a copy on the Defence Intranet at http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil...7-49AC-9BE6-BFDABCD91F74/0/JSP754Edition5.doc

Substitution Pay is covered in Chapter 3, Section 8. The relevant parts as far as you're concerned are:

Eligibility
SUPA may be paid to an officer or other rank (OR) who is required temporarily to undertake the duties and responsibilities of a post established for an officer, OR, or civil servant of a rank/grade higher than his/her own which is vacant


and

03.0809. An individual who substitutes in a post which is two or more ranks higher than their own, will only be entitled to receive SUPA appropriate to that for the first higher rank. SUPA may be authorised to personnel already holding paid AHR .

You should check the regulations at the link above and make sure both you and the post you're filling satisfy all the requirements, but based purely on the info you've given (which seems to cover most of the bases) you have an entitlement to claim SUPA under current Joint Service regulations.

I've had a word with my Chief Clerk, and he also assures me that again, based on the info you've given, there's no reason why you couldn't claim SUPA from the start of the period when you were covering this job. However as in_the_cheapseats pointed out earlier on in this thread, your CO can only give it to you for up to 6 months. After that it needs to be approved at a higher level, Brigade HQ sounds like the Army port of call. This can be done retrospectively if you've already done the job longer than 6 months.

Hope this all helps.
 
#19
Substitution Pay is covered in Chapter 3, Section 8. The relevant parts as far as you're concerned are:

Eligibility
SUPA may be paid to an officer or other rank (OR) who is required temporarily to undertake the duties and responsibilities of a post established for an officer, OR, or civil servant of a rank/grade higher than his/her own which is vacant


clues in bold.. if your job is a black econ post it may not matched to LSN of that rank, therefore you may poo-out under that pretense. i would confirm the actual rank status of the LSN.
 
#20
Harken ye to the words of bitterandtwisted, for verily, he speaketh the truth. I've had cases in the past of Warrant Officers trying to claim SUPA for doing jobs that were previously filled by RAF Flt Lts, only to find out that the job was actually billed for a WO in the first place.
 

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