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Does working hard still make you rich?

Working hard will give you a decent consumer lifestyle in the UK but it wont make you rich ....unless you get into finance in the city and have very good connections and an MBA , most cant.

I know a few very wealthy people and they are no more happy than say a shelf stacker who gets a £100 bonus at Christmas, contentment is worth more than any amount of money.
 
If working hard makes you rich, I reckon most on here would be comfortably well off.
 
Working hard will give you a decent consumer lifestyle in the UK but it wont make you rich ....unless you get into finance in the city and have very good connections and an MBA , most cant.

I know a few very wealthy people and they are no more happy than say a shelf stacker who gets a £100 bonus at Christmas, contentment is worth more than any amount of money.

Ah, "The MBA".

When the MBA first came about it was designed, and intended, to be undertaken by individuals who already had a degree along with either a professional qualification, such as lawyer, accountant, IT, or HR. They would most likely be in upper-middle management and be looking to make the jump to senior management with an eye on a board level position in the future. It was the qualification that was intended to put the final polish on the gemstone, in most decent institutions a trial by fire intended to throw up excellent managerial specialists with a well rounded understanding of all aspects of business.

MBA's became the qualification that all businesses thought they needed from personnel moving up. So, Polytechnics, and universities, changed the name of their MA in Business Studies, to MBA, plonked in a couple of modules in Strategic Management and it was sold to the masses.

Nowadays you can pick up a Bachelors in Business Administration (BBA), the MBA, and the Doctorate in Business Administration (DBA). Nowadays I hear of kiddies going straight from a degree to an MBA with no work experience, never mind business experience.
 
Working hard will give you a decent consumer lifestyle in the UK but it wont make you rich ....unless you get into finance in the city and have very good connections and an MBA , most cant.

I know a few very wealthy people and they are no more happy than say a shelf stacker who gets a £100 bonus at Christmas, contentment is worth more than any amount of money.
I don’t believe anyone ever got really rich by working in a job. Sure, some people make a very good living as a wage slave. But the pretty much the only way to become really rich is to build a scaleable business. One that you work on and not in.

An acquaintance of mine who has become filthy rich out of building a global training company describes working in a job as being Just Off Broke. His logic is simple; however much your salary grows, your lifestyle just expands to fit. You buy a bigger house, a nicer car, have more expensive holidays etc etc. But you never get to the point where you could last more than a few months in the same lifestyle without working in the same or a similar job.
 
This is how it is in the company I work at. The average age is pretty high, over forty I think, across forty-two people so effective and intelligent effort is standard. I was responsible for a mini-project moving paper-based production time-tracking into a database system, for better forecasting and planning. I was worried about a lot of anomalous entries showing work-activities finishing after one in the morning, and running all of Sunday -- however, the worker IDs were those of the two company owners, trying (and succeeding) to reduce the pressure on the staff during a busy few months.

The company has now had two record breaking months, and the new HR person is the exception to the rule and has managed to find three good, reliable, knowledgable new staff after months of failure by an external recruitment agency. University-linked research projects are increasing, which often lead to production programs, and some new machinery is coming in. All due to non-stop effort by the business owners at a noticeably higher level than everyone else (and there are no slackers).
One of the hardest challenges for entrepreneurs is the point when they become responsible
Your accountants work hard, as do your lawyers, your tax advisers, your hangers-on, your agents and assorted specialists, but you aren't working hard.
Completely ignoring two things; the accountants, lawyers, tax advisers and assorted specialists will almost certainly be entrepreneurs themselves.

And no-one ever built a successful business on the back of advisors. Advisors advise. Entrepreneurs do.
 
Some do.

For every Jeff Bezos there is a million failures.

For every Jack Ma there is a million failures

For every Bill Gates there is a million failures.

Ad Infinitum

Survivor bias. Some people graft their arses off, take enormous risks for the sake of their vision, suffer through setback after setback after setback, then eventually the stars align and the business they've worked so hard to get off the ground finally starts making money. They'll tell anyone who'll listen that all they need to do is take the plunge and work hard, because that's what worked for them.

The thousand who did exactly the same thing and had it all fall apart on them aren't telling anyone anything.
 
The dole is way too comfortable as a lifestyle choice and poverty is seen as not having the latest iPhone, iPad, XBox and big screen TV.

That, right there, is the issue that needs to be addressed. It's no longer a safety net for those who have fallen by the way and need a hand up. It's now less economically advantageous to go to work, and that is a stand alone indictment of the entire welfare system. It no longer recognises real poverty, and indeed encourages the misuse of the system.

The real 'dole' should be vouchers for shops, utility companies and a very small amount of cash. We shouldn't be supporting someone's career choice of idleness, but we should be supporting them with food, a simple roof above their head and not much else, until they find employment.

The debacle that is the idle through fictitious disabilities, should be sorted. However, it's needs to be done properly and not in a cackhanded payments-by-results sh1tshow that was the Medical assessment scandal.
 
Survivor bias. Some people graft their arses off, take enormous risks for the sake of their vision, suffer through setback after setback after setback, then eventually the stars align and the business they've worked so hard to get off the ground finally starts making money. They'll tell anyone who'll listen that all they need to do is take the plunge and work hard, because that's what worked for them.

The thousand who did exactly the same thing and had it all fall apart on them aren't telling anyone anything.
Equally, there are plenty of entrepreneurs who build successful businesses that make them seriously wealthy without ever aiming to emulate Bezos et al. It’s got nothing to do with having a killer idea, the stars aligning, luck or the gods and everything to do with planning, hard work and execution.

It really isn’t that hard. Have a plan, systemise your business and work on it, not in it and you’ll invariably succeed.
 
I know one well and I have met a couple of the very wealthy. One thing that struck me was they never stopped. Even when they were seemingly relaxing their minds were always churning over. Also I think no matter what happened in their lives they would never ever give in and if one venture failed they were on their way to the next. Almost like they are programmed to succeed one way or the other.
 
What do people think of going into business with family and in-laws?

You see them around Christmas and birthdays, but I imagine it must be quite hard working with them day in, day out. If you're running a joint business then it's inevitable that there will be disagreements or one person will do more than the other. This can easily breed contempt and if there's money involved I imagine it can turn ugly.

You also can't really fire family members and remain on good terms. Business is, I imagine, quite ruthless and at the end of the day other people are only there as an asset to make you rich. I imagine it's important to be nice to them, but you can't really be best mates with them.

Does anyone else have experience with this? It must be great to start off with cos you can share the work and ideas and as the company grows it might also be important to have another person help run it.
 
Your post seems to be all over the place, at least to me anyway. So I will only comment on this part.

Business is, I imagine, quite ruthless and at the end of the day other people are only there as an asset to make you rich.

To my mind, there are 3 things in the above that suggests to me, any business that you embark on will most likely fail.

I'll leave you to identify them.
 
Your post seems to be all over the place, at least to me anyway. So I will only comment on this part.



To my mind, there are 3 things in the above that suggests to me, any business that you embark on will most likely fail.

I'll leave you to identify them.

I'm actually at work so I posted it in my brief break time. I don't have the leisure at the moment to peruse my posts thoroughly, next time I'll be sure to check with you before submitting a reply.

I've been running a business part time for 4 years but that's being self employed. My post was regarding the difficulty of working with family members. It is inevitable that a disagreement at some point will come about over money or work, I say that because I've seen it myself. I've seen it with night club management and I've seen it with trade. That sort of disagreement is enough to ruin friendship so I imagine it might be a bit difficult over Christmas dinner.

I think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether more experienced people than I think it would be a good idea to employ family members or in laws, primarily because they have the experience and it may have worked out for them.

With regards to the quote, you start a business to make money, not to give other people a job or an income. That's a charity. If things get tough or they start to dick about then you have to be prepared to let them go or fire them. With family members that would be difficult. I'm not mates with my boss and they aren't mates with me. That doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, but it is the reality imho.
 
I'm actually at work so I posted it in my brief break time. I don't have the leisure at the moment to peruse my posts thoroughly, next time I'll be sure to check with you before submitting a reply.

I've been running a business part time for 4 years but that's being self employed. My post was regarding the difficulty of working with family members. It is inevitable that a disagreement at some point will come about over money or work, I say that because I've seen it myself. I've seen it with night club management and I've seen it with trade. That sort of disagreement is enough to ruin friendship so I imagine it might be a bit difficult over Christmas dinner.

I think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether more experienced people than I think it would be a good idea to employ family members or in laws, primarily because they have the experience and it may have worked out for them.

With regards to the quote, you start a business to make money, not to give other people a job or an income. That's a charity. If things get tough or they start to dick about then you have to be prepared to let them go or fire them. With family members that would be difficult. I'm not mates with my boss and they aren't mates with me. That doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, but it is the reality imho.
For most people the reality of starting a business is that you have to start it with either friend or family members. Unless you’re an established entrepreneur, how else do you meet new partners?

IMHO it’s largely irrelevant. Whoever you go in to business with, you need to spend time before you spend money getting yourselves aligned and signing up to a plan. It’s too late to find that you’re partner who agreed to invest $200k hasn’t actually got the cash when it’s time to call it in (happened to me). Get commitments written down at the start and be businesslike; if people don’t do what they commit to, then they don’t get paid.

As for employing family, why would you? As you have identified, it’s a business, not a charity. If they don’t offer the skills you need, don’t hire them. Building the right team is probably the hardest challenge in scaling a business; you have to find the right people.
 
I think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether more experienced people than I think it would be a good idea to employ family members or in laws, primarily because they have the experience and it may have worked out for them.

Why do you think that is reasonable, there is only one person that knows your family and in laws, you.

Would I employ a family member - No. Would I have a family member as a business partner - Yes.

With regards to the quote, you start a business to make money,

That is the theory, for the vast majority of business start ups, that comes at the end of a very long process, which is why a large chunk of them fail.
 
That is the theory, for the vast majority of business start ups, that comes at the end of a very long process, which is why a large chunk of them fail.
American stats, but UK ones won't be much different. Of all small businesses started in the USA in 2014:
  • 80 percent made it to the second year (2015);
  • 70 percent made it to the third year (2016);
  • 62 percent made it to the fourth year (2017);
  • 56 percent made it to the fifth year (2018).

  • Given those numbers, a bit more than half of all startups actually survive to their fourth year, while the startup failure rate at four years is about 44 percent.
Perhaps more interesting are the Top Ten reasons for failure. None of these are down to bad luck; they are all about poor planning and / or execution. Which is why its so important to have the right advisors and mentors around you when you start a business.

  • No market need: 42 percent;
  • Ran out of cash: 29 percent;
  • Not the right team: 23 percent;
  • Got outcompeted: 19 percent;
  • Pricing / Cost issues: 18 percent;
  • User un-friendly product: 17 percent;
  • Product without a business model: 17 percent;
  • Poor marketing: 14 percent;
  • Ignore customers: 14 percent; and
  • Product mistimed: 13 percent.
 
American stats, but UK ones won't be much different. Of all small businesses started in the USA in 2014:
  • 80 percent made it to the second year (2015);
  • 70 percent made it to the third year (2016);
  • 62 percent made it to the fourth year (2017);
  • 56 percent made it to the fifth year (2018).

  • Given those numbers, a bit more than half of all startups actually survive to their fourth year, while the startup failure rate at four years is about 44 percent.

80% of what bob ?

80% of 5 means something totally different from 80% of 300.

Perhaps more interesting are the Top Ten reasons for failure. None of these are down to bad luck; they are all about poor planning and / or execution. Which is why its so important to have the right advisors and mentors around you when you start a business.

  • No market need: 42 percent;
  • Ran out of cash: 29 percent;
  • Not the right team: 23 percent;
  • Got outcompeted: 19 percent;
  • Pricing / Cost issues: 18 percent;
  • User un-friendly product: 17 percent;
  • Product without a business model: 17 percent;
  • Poor marketing: 14 percent;
  • Ignore customers: 14 percent; and
  • Product mistimed: 13 percent.

Hmmmm

Looking at that list bob - Would a genuine entrepreneur make such basic errors of judgement ?

It is not as if a sound business plan is a new concept.
 
80% of what bob ?

80% of 5 means something totally different from 80% of 300.



Hmmmm

Looking at that list bob - Would a genuine entrepreneur make such basic errors of judgement ?

It is not as if a sound business plan is a new concept.
As I said, of the total number of American small business startups in 2014. The total number is particularly relevant; it’s a substantial sample big enough to draw meaningful probabilities of failure. The stats came from the US National Association of Small Businesses 2018 Economic Report.

I think you’re right to differentiate between genuine entrepreneurs and many of the dreamers who start businesses. Michael Gerber’s best seller The eMyth is all about the difference between being a genuine entrepreneur and starting a business which is really just a job.

That said, lots of those failures will be by genuine entrepreneurs getting out early when their concept doesn’t work. Nothing wrong with that; accepting and learning from failure is part and parcel of entrepreneurism.
 
The total number is particularly relevant;

It is very relevant - It is pity that you did not include it. 80% of ( blank ) means nothing.

I think you’re right to differentiate between genuine entrepreneurs and many of the dreamers who start businesses.

I'm one of those dreamers that started a business in 1983, it is still going strong. It was neither a dream, nor would I ever consider myself to be an entrepreneur.

That said, lots of those failures will be by genuine entrepreneurs getting out early when their concept doesn’t work.

We can agree to disagree

  • No market need: 42 percent;
  • Ran out of cash: 29 percent;
  • Not the right team: 23 percent;
  • Got outcompeted: 19 percent;
  • Pricing / Cost issues: 18 percent;
  • User un-friendly product: 17 percent;
  • Product without a business model: 17 percent;
  • Poor marketing: 14 percent;
  • Ignore customers: 14 percent; and
  • Product mistimed: 13 percent.

Would a genuine entrepreneur make such basic errors ? I think not. The top response at 42% tells you all you need to know.

In addition, having a string of failures behind you does not make someone an entrepreneur.
 
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