Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Does working hard still make you rich?

Turn the question around - does being rich mean you have to work hard? I'd suggest given wide swathes of our uber-rich have got their sitting on their arses and watching their parent's property portfolio expand, or watching a previously established company just pay multi-generational dividends, that not necessarily.
Blame your grandparents for not working harder then :D
 
Yes, I think the OP is looking down the wrong end of the telescope, there have always been wastrel layabouts getting by on scrounging off others, they are an irrelevance and shouldn't become a fixation for anyone.

I think the answer to the question, as pointed out by others, is the definition of rich. Living in a decent four-bed house in SE England with a couple of top-of-the-range saloons in the drive, putting the kids through private school and maybe owning a nice little place in Italy or France safe in the knowledge that you have a good pension waiting for you when you retire at 60, would by any definition make you rich beyond the dreams of avarice for 90% of the world's population.

But in real terms that's not "rich", that's being a comfortably off member of the upper middle class in a first world country. I think almost all of us here would happily settle for that and it's a position you can get through hard, or at least smart, work.

As to working hard to get rich in the sense of the super-rich today? The yacht in Monte Carlo, palatial mansion in Beverley Hills, private Lear jet and penthouse apartment in Kensington, stock options worth billions? No, hard work won't get you that and rarely ever did.
Rubbish. There are lots of people who have got quietly very wealthy through building successful businesses. Nothing fancy, just a well run, scaleable, properly entrepreneurial businesses. They’re not crooks, nor do they have anyone in their pocket.

Some of them go on to be mega-rich. Some just filthy rich. And some just rich. What they pretty much all have is an overwhelming work ethic. They do work huge hours; most successful entrepreneurs never stop or switch off. It’s all consuming.
 
I think you have to define “rich”. The Duke of Westminster is rich. Jeff Bezos is rich. Tim Cook is rich. Bill Gates is rich. But if you come from a relatively poor background, maybe “rich” equates to something different.

Owning a nice car might be seen as “rich”, but if you live in a 3-bed semi with a Merc on the drive, that’s different from spending a few weeks in your third Beach house with a Bugatti on the drive.
I just want my own 1 bedroom house. To buy something like that these days, you have to be financially rich or be prepared to drive at least 3 hours to your job each day.
 
Last edited:
Rubbish. There are lots of people who have got quietly very wealthy through building successful businesses. Nothing fancy, just a well run, scaleable, properly entrepreneurial businesses. They’re not crooks, nor do they have anyone in their pocket.

Some of them go on to be mega-rich. Some just filthy rich. And some just rich. What they pretty much all have is an overwhelming work ethic. They do work huge hours; most successful entrepreneurs never stop or switch off. It’s all consuming.
Give me a few examples then, like I say not comfortably off upper middle class, but real super-rich who genuinely put in a life-time of the hard grind to get that rich. Men or women who did 70-hour weeks for 40 years to earn their billions (and rich means billions). The people you are describing are the comfortably affluent, I am talking about the real rich.

You'll be hard pressed to find more than a handful, as opposed to the vast majority of heirs, crooks and just dumb good-luck merchants who benefited from timing or fashions that were utterly beyond their control.
 
Give me a few examples then, like I say not comfortably off upper middle class, but real super-rich who genuinely put in a life-time of the hard grind to get that rich. Men or women who did 70-hour weeks for 40 years to earn their billions (and rich means billions). The people you are describing are the comfortably affluent, I am talking about the real rich.

You'll be hard pressed to find more than a handful, as opposed to the vast majority of heirs, crooks and just dumb good-luck merchants who benefited from timing or fashions that were utterly beyond their control.
There’s a huge gap between the “comfortably off middle class” and the relatively few mega-rich billionaires. It’s a gap filled mostly by properly successful entrepreneurial people. People with levels of wealth in the £10M+ zone aren’t well off middle class, nor are they uber wealthy.

As for billionaires, many of the big names are self made. You can’t describe the likes of Bezos, Wozniak, Musk, Branson etc etc as dumb good-luck merchants.
 
I was ill a few years back and had to take a few months off work. The council overpaid my rent on top of JSA so I was earning enough to sit back and relax and even save money.

It was fekin great. I spent my time reading interesting books in the sunshine and having pointless arguments with people on the internet. I downloaded loads of stuff off the net and was able to binge watch Homeland until 4am then stay in bed until noon the next day. I also squandered my time seducing local floozies who I could then poke until the neighbours complained about the smell, after all I didn't have to go to work.

Unfortunately my landlord put the rent up so it all came to an end, I'd put any of the above as better than sitting in the morning commute or typing crap into an excel spreadsheet.

I think the main problem is that jobs don't really pay enough when the temptation to go on the dole is so great. I also used to work in a call centre for minimum wage, who would willingly want to do that?

The dole is way too comfortable as a lifestyle choice and poverty is seen as not having the latest iPhone, iPad, XBox and big screen TV.

That, right there, is the issue that needs to be addressed. It's no longer a safety net for those who have fallen by the way and need a hand up. It's now less economically advantageous to go to work, and that is a stand alone indictment of the entire welfare system. It no longer recognises real poverty, and indeed encourages the misuse of the system.
 
Does working hard still make you rich?

No.


Working people are getting poorer. Most millennials won't ever own their own home and the key to getting rich is to inherit about half a billion from your parents.
 
The dole is way too comfortable as a lifestyle choice and poverty is seen as not having the latest iPhone, iPad, XBox and big screen TV.

That, right there, is the issue that needs to be addressed. It's no longer a safety net for those who have fallen by the way and need a hand up. It's now less economically advantageous to go to work, and that is a stand alone indictment of the entire welfare system. It no longer recognises real poverty, and indeed encourages the misuse of the system.

Bingo

Then you can throw '' In work Benefits '' into the mix.

To my mind, something is very, very wrong when wages need to be topped up by Government handouts.

ETA

As others have said. Define rich and the level of perspective.

Compared to the Bezos of the world, I am a pauper. To a dole rat or zero hours contract worker I am probably rich.
 
Even with property comes luck imho. Back when I was at school everyone well off was a Dr, teacher or businessman and that's what you were pushed towards in education.

Nowadays a lot of well off people are tradesmen - plumbers and gas fitters. If you're fortunate enough to have inherited your granny's house in London you can then sell it and buy most of the property in Scotland. If you're also fortunate enough to know what you're doing in construction you can do it all up yourself and rent em out to suckers like me (though now fortunately I'm on the housing ladder, most people who rent are screwed).
 
There’s a huge gap between the “comfortably off middle class” and the relatively few mega-rich billionaires. It’s a gap filled mostly by properly successful entrepreneurial people. People with levels of wealth in the £10M+ zone aren’t well off middle class, nor are they uber wealthy.

As for billionaires, many of the big names are self made. You can’t describe the likes of Bezos, Wozniak, Musk, Branson etc etc as dumb good-luck merchants.
Entrepreneurial and hard working are not the same thing. Although successful entrepreneurs will always try to convince you they are.

The premise of the question is whether hard work will result in great wealth, answer, very simply, no.

If that were the case all the hard working people you know would be extremely wealthy and all the super-rich you know would be slaving at the coal face, 12 hours a day, six days a week.

As both of those propositions are demonstrably false we can only conclude there is little or no relation between vast wealth and hard work.

Bezos, Musk, Branson etc are classic examples of guys who made good on cashing in on a wave that was none of their making. None of them have done a hard days' work in 25 years or more. They are now simply rentiers cashing in on their good fortune in spotting a niche in the market or a trending curve during their youth and exploiting it. At the time they hit the jackpot there were countless other people, working just as hard if not harder in the same fields who didn't catch the wave and we never hear of them today, if hard work was key to great wealth those people too would be swanning on yachts in Monte Carlo.

During that brief period when they had their massive good fortune they probably worked liked dogs, but their exponential success since then bears no relation to any actual physical effort or sweat that they expend, good luck to them I do not resent their success, just don't try to tell me it's all down to their work ethic.

Vast wealth comes from luck, good connections, being in the right place at the right time, a willingness to shaft people, access to influence and many other factors, hard work is probably the least influential factor.
 
...Then you can throw '' In work Benefits '' into the mix...

Of course. Why should anyone live within their means?

I get the idea it's a way to get people dependent on govt handouts in order to secure their vote, while employing others to administer a complicated system at great cost, a self licking lollipop if you will.

Of course, there are so many on the hook now, any govt trying to wean them off the teat will get handed its arse.

You is fooked, Rastus!
 

Lacking Moral Fibre

War Hero
Book Reviewer
I grew up with a dad who ran his own business, I witnessed the good times and bad he went through, his partner effectively stole all the money and got away with it. Dad had to start almost from nothing but built things up again. I saw the pressure he was under and was determined I wasn't gonna go through that. A military career for me oh yes. My older brother worked for dad as soon as he left school. I wanted more, travel, excitement, medals, etc.
By 1985 I was in the RAF on almost minimum wage painting white lines on hanger floor or washing land rovers or cleaning thousands of items a Rapier Sqn needed. At the same time brother was driving a new ford having holidays in Spain with his mates boozing and shagging his late teens away. He probably worked same hours as me but he was paid so much more but he like dad had to work very hard for it outside in all weathers.
Needless to say I was always reminded by my family of my choice in life-not in a good way.
By 1989 with a disasterous first marriage behind, broke financially and at low point, dad offered to pay for my PVR from the RAF and I said yes. Section battle drill on SPTA or bull nights didn't excite me anymore, having a decent car and a bank statement that I was happy to open were.
Well I went from the mundane but safe world of the cold war military to the 6 day's a week family business. The days as the idiot brother/son that I was were long and grim. Getting home to the parents house at 7 or 8 most nights was normal. Dad handed me a set of keys so I had to be in early and lock up last.
I regretted my decision to leave, when GW1 kicked off I even rang to see if I could reenlist, no chance. I tried to join the Police even tried the RUC.
Well 31 years later I have worked hard, I've made bad mistakes in learning the business but I learnt from them and progressed. I have a decent pension some property and the business premises is worth a lot and I've got developers sniffing round. All sounds great yeah?
I find the responsibility crippling, there's plenty of anxiety and stress, especially this year, plenty of sleepless nights. Money is good but is it all worth it , should I go to work every day with my stomach turning over?
My brother died 3 years ago of pancreatic cancer, his fondness for booze may have contributed. We were never close but worked together. I had furious rows with him and my parents which causes a poor cynical relationship with my 79 year old dad which I doubt will ever be good.
So I find myself alone not having holidays anymore apart from at Christmas. I envy the employees, they have holidays or time off and furlough was a good number for them. I even envy them as they could walk away to work somewhere else.
I do think working hard is important and making a life for yourself dependent on no one is still essential, that was what my generation was taught by our parents. I am content that if I have a heart attack and drop down dead at least the wife and son will be set up for life.
So in conclusion yes it does, but the realities of life will always be your master.
 
I like to think I've worked quite hard in my life, although I've also tried to take things easy when I could, I've done every job going from bin man to bar work, digging holes in the road and the corporate yuppie dream in London. I worked as a cleaner in my first job earning peanuts and I worked hard for my A levels and for my degree. I'm also busting my nuts now in the education sector and I can't say I'm enjoying it, though to be totally honest, I've never really enjoyed any work. Given the choice I'd much rather sit on my arse at home.

And there lies the problem, I would love to be a dolie with a made up disease and scrounge off the state. I'd be able to lie in every day and never have to wake up at 6am. There would be zero pressure from deadlines, no terrifying meetings with senior management to justify your existence and no anxiety-provoking bs to deal with from day-to-day work stress.

Every day would be my own to do whatever the fk I like, it would be a perpetual holiday. I would never get bored, there's enough free books and dodgy sites on the internet to entertain me for several lifetimes, as well as cheap hobbies to fill my day.

There's a guy I know who lives just like this, he's about 10 years younger than me and only just 20. He already has two kids from two different girls and doesn't even have to worry about supporting them or raising them so he's already ahead of me in the game of establishing progeny. If I want a kid I'll have to pay shyt loads for child care and then not even see them cos I'll be too busy working.

Meanwhile, this kid has his own private **** palace and can spend the next decade browsing tinder, eating chocolate ice cream in the bath and shagging himself into a coma with the local grotbags. I spent the last decade working my ass off and I've only just got on the housing ladder.

Is it really worth it? Life is so short after all. The only thing stopping me from being a scrounger is that other people would think I'm a skank, secretly though I quite envy the useless bastard.
I might have missed something here, but the dole scrounger is 10 years younger than you and aged 20, making you just 30.
Assuming a straight run at A Levels and a 3-year degree, and the bin man, bar work, hole-digging were done while a student, you've been working as a graduate for just 9 years. In that time you've done the yuppie corporate thing and are now a teacher?
Forget about the dole scrounger, that's his life, not yours.
What was your degree and was it relevant to either the corporate job or the subject you now teach? Can you go back into something corporate that interests you, that you will do your very best at, reap the rewards (job satisfaction, promotions, salary etc).
Or do you have an idea for your own business?
Either way, whatever you do has to be good for you, and sitting on your arse playing GTA while scrounging off the state is likely to lose its appeal after a while.
 
It's a combination of hard work and just plain old fashioned luck, that and a matter of perspective, apparently I'm in the top 5% income bracket but I certainly don't feel rich, I drive a 5 year old Nissan... I put the graft in to get my qualifications and work hard at my job but I'm well aware that a big part of it was being in the right place at the right time.
 
The answer to that is - you will never know. You will only know the outcome of the life you live and even then, nothing is altogether stable, until you get nearer the end of the book.


My bold. I have reached that stage now (70) ,and I can truthfully say, that all my goals have been achieved, but it was a long hard struggle. House all paid for, fully refurbished, all mod cons, a beautiful garden, (work in progress), 8 grandchildren, a modest car, no yacht, home in the south of France, private planes, super car, or squillions stashed away in a Swiss bank, and I am happy with my lot. But it was a long hard struggle, with a disabled wife, and being self employed for 30 years in the building and construction trade, there were times when it looked doomed, am I rich? financially, no, Just about managing, am I content , yes. You have to graft for it, for ordinary folk who don't have rich familys, or connections,...... you work, and then you die.

What you do in between defines your life, and the legacy you leave behind. You can be a work shy slob, ponce off the state and all around you, achieve nothing, and live an idle life, when you die, nothing, the memory of your life will amount to nothing to those who knew you.

"Nobody said it was gonna be easy marine" JOHN WAYNE. The sands of Iwo Jima. 1949
 
Bezos, Musk, Branson etc are classic examples of guys who made good on cashing in on a wave that was none of their making. None of them have done a hard days' work in 25 years or more.
Just because they weren't laying bricks in all weathers doesn't mean they haven't worked hard. I bet the stresses of running multi-billion dollar companies would break plenty of lesser folk. Musk in particular is known for working 80-120 hours / week.

I may not like them individually, but I don't think it's been easy street for them to build what they have done.
 

Diogenes' limp

Old-Salt
My bold. I have reached that stage now (70) ,and I can truthfully say, that all my goals have been achieved, but it was a long hard struggle. House all paid for, fully refurbished, all mod cons, a beautiful garden, (work in progress), 8 grandchildren, a modest car, no yacht, home in the south of France, private planes, super car, or squillions stashed away in a Swiss bank, and I am happy with my lot. But it was a long hard struggle, with a disabled wife, and being self employed for 30 years in the building and construction trade, there were times when it looked doomed, am I rich? financially, no, Just about managing, am I content , yes. You have to graft for it, for ordinary folk who don't have rich familys, or connections,...... you work, and then you die.

What you do in between defines your life, and the legacy you leave behind. You can be a work shy slob, ponce off the state and all around you, achieve nothing, and live an idle life, when you die, nothing, the memory of your life will amount to nothing to those who knew you.

"Nobody said it was gonna be easy marine" JOHN WAYNE. The sands of Iwo Jima. 1949
I absolutely agree, but I'd suggest what we are both talking about is contentment and as a reward that comes late if it comes from application. If you'll permit, the 70 years spent to get there amount to 233% of the OP's life so far and, looking back, the tender age of thirty can be a difficult place. Not yet the midlife crisis perhaps, but a time to take stock if you don't have a clear direction. Contentment seemed an elusive, even nebulous, concept from the foothills.
 
Just because they weren't laying bricks in all weathers doesn't mean they haven't worked hard. I bet the stresses of running multi-billion dollar companies would break plenty of lesser folk. Musk in particular is known for working 80-120 hours / week.

I may not like them individually, but I don't think it's been easy street for them to build what they have done.
None of the people mentioned seems to suffer from a severe Presbyterian work ethic.

I am sure plenty of people who work for them work extremely long hours but between Bezos' sex scandal and Branson in his island retreat I don't see much sign of chief executives putting in the hours that Mr Patel in the corner shop puts in.

How do you know Musk works 120-hour weeks? Because his publicity people tell you, it just makes you wonder where he finds the time to tweet all the shite that he does if he is so focused on his work, I never seem to see Mr Patel on his Twitter account, he seems to have more important things to occupy his time.
 
I would love to be a dolie with a made up disease and scrounge off the state. I'd be able to lie in every day and never have to wake up at 6am. There would be zero pressure from deadlines, no terrifying meetings with senior management to justify your existence and no anxiety-provoking bs to deal with from day-to-day work stress.

Every day would be my own to do whatever the fk I like, it would be a perpetual holiday. I would never get bored, there's enough free books and dodgy sites on the internet to entertain me for several lifetimes, as well as cheap hobbies to fill my day.
That's retirement, that is.
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top