Does the RAF regiment have a future?

There is the lead Para battalion group which jumps in with attached Gunner battery and Sapper troop which jumps in first followed by the 'follow on' Para battalion. Then your lot together with all the non para trained elements of 5AB/16AA. Following the demise of 16 Parachute Brigade in 1977 the RAF has difficulty dropping more than one battalion group at a time.
Spot on.

Back in the 80's/90's the LIMFAC was the amount of C130Ks available.

For a 'Bn' insertion it would be 8 x C130 for Troops and Wedge, 8 x C130 for the 16 MSPs (2 each per ac) and then a follow on 1 x C130 with 24 tons of additional resupply (ammo mainly). So 16 gusting 17 hercs to do the job for 1 Bn inc the Log, Med, Sigs etc and even the RMP were fragged 1 x MSP depending on the scenario.

Airland follow on as soon as practicable/required.

We certainly can't do that today. RAF regt or no RAF Regt

Not a dig but in all my time involved in that activity never once saw 2 Sqn RAF Regt be allocated any heavy drop MSPs for their kit or indeed ever known of them to do the MSP rigging course.
 
That's my point

If the RAF are landing assets in a foreign country shouldn't the RAF Reg be in their first.
Isn't the whole point of 2 Sqn to seize and hold airfields for the RAF to operate from yet IIRC it was the HCR that got to the airfield first.
If as you correctly say you pack your assault helicopters with Army then where is the role for the RAF Regiment.
Helicopter lands and Army run off the back and secures the ground.

Is the RAF Regiment simply a relic left over from the Cold War and the Harrier force which are no longer required.

It's a poor point to be honest. To use your scenario - helicopter assault - the RAF Regt would be securing the place the assault leaves from, not where it's going to.

You ask if they're a relic from the Cold War and that would also be wrong - If they're a relic from anything, it's WWII. And the reason they were set up - give the RAF the means to defend their own airfields to release soldiers back to the front lines - is the crux of this whole argument.

I don't think the most ardent RAF Regiment supporter would say the Army is incapable of defending a patch of ground. And even if that patch of ground contains, or actually is, the highly technological thing which is an airfield.

What the debate is about is the doctrinal difference between dedicated air-minded FP troops - RAF Regt - and the Army who would just divert some of an existing formation to do the job.

Let's be honest - is any CO in the only 6 month deployment he'll get in his 2 years in command of a teeth arm unit, going to want to detach at least a company of his formation, for what he may consider a static defence task? Not many DSOs in that.
 
It's a poor point to be honest. To use your scenario - helicopter assault - the RAF Regt would be securing the place the assault leaves from, not where it's going to.

You ask if they're a relic from the Cold War and that would also be wrong - If they're a relic from anything, it's WWII. And the reason they were set up - give the RAF the means to defend their own airfields to release soldiers back to the front lines - is the crux of this whole argument.

I don't think the most ardent RAF Regiment supporter would say the Army is incapable of defending a patch of ground. And even if that patch of ground contains, or actually is, the highly technological thing which is an airfield.

What the debate is about is the doctrinal difference between dedicated air-minded FP troops - RAF Regt - and the Army who would just divert some of an existing formation to do the job.

Let's be honest - is any CO in the only 6 month deployment he'll get in his 2 years in command of a teeth arm unit, going to want to detach at least a company of his formation, for what he may consider a static defence task? Not many DSOs in that.
Few things as toxic as a commanding officer desperate to make his name during that 2 year command stint (which is only 5% of the time he’ll serve if he does a full career) and will stamp on anyone who gets in the way.
That having been said, there are those who see commanding as a true privilege and treat it (and consequently the soldiers under their command) as such.
I’ve had both extremes as COs - both got to 2* - one fully engaged in the regimental association, the other can fcuk right off and has nothing to do with it.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
15 Sqn Mortars also helped in the retaking of Musa Kala in 2007. I had just turned up for our pre deployment recce. Some of you need to complain to the Brigade responsible and tell them that we are/were not up to standard. Maybe the Mortar course Instructors at Netheravon got it all wrong?
The bit missing at the end of that piece is:

"Sergeant David Potterton BEM (Sqn Armourer) responded to the 81mm mortar incident involving one of 15 Sqns mortarmen and a misfired round, he very quickly and safely disposed of the mortar round which had caused injury and subsequently brought the weapon back into the fight. For this action Sgt Potterton was awarded the British Empire Medal."
 

Ursus Major

Old-Salt
I always find it strange that you having the Ridings of Yorkshire - North, East, West, the just South Yorkshire - no Riding. It’s like South Yorkshire is the bastàrd son.
That's down to the traitor Heaths local government changes in 1974ish
 

conjurer

Old-Salt
The bit missing at the end of that piece is:

"Sergeant David Potterton BEM (Sqn Armourer) responded to the 81mm mortar incident involving one of 15 Sqns mortarmen and a misfired round, he very quickly and safely disposed of the mortar round which had caused injury and subsequently brought the weapon back into the fight. For this action Sgt Potterton was awarded the British Empire Medal."
I certainly don’t want to impugn Sgt Potterton’s actions however are you sure he was awarded a BEM? The BEM hasn’t been awarded for gallantry since 1922 1974 and for meritorious service in the military since 1992.

edit for poor use of numbers
 
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But for a couple of years, he would have been awarded a Queen’s Gallantry Medal (QGM). Thank you for the clarification.
Is there any indication on the medal ribbon for a BEM being awarded for gallantry v one awarded for worthy service? eg an MID oak leaf?
 

conjurer

Old-Salt
Is there any indication on the medal ribbon for a BEM being awarded for gallantry v one awarded for worthy service? eg an MID oak leaf?
On one side it states ‘for meritorious service‘ with the gallantry version also having oak leaves attached to the ribbon. Military awards also have a grey stripe top to bottom on the ribbon.
 
My favourite bit was when pilot officer ‘Dom’ pointed out that they out perform the Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines because they are better at working in small teams. Comedy gold.

The ops officer saying that SNCOs are not afraid to give him their views, unlike the army where they are all a bit shit, was a close second.

Self awareness clearly not high in the real 2 Para.
 
Having served down on sfsg at that time, it's actually a true statement, in no way did we under perform compared to the other two units, and we were integrated as one platoon in amongst the para company, but we smashed them at the phys. I even remember we had to take the ammo and guns off the gun group on an exercise so they could get up the hill without kit...it broke me but it was nice to see the face of the snco's after carrying double the load, but in all fairness I worked with some great soldiers down there and once we worked together on ops attitudes were changed
 

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