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Does the RAF regiment have a future?

Maple

LE
This wasn't the case where Blair wanted to get involved in Zimbabwe after Muggers had stolen yet another election was it? The CDS Charles Guthrie dissuaded him on the grounds that we didn't have the troops with Iraqi and Afghanistan, and if we got involved, we could get bogged down in a case of 'you broke it, you fix it'
I can't remember, could have been Sierra Leone
 

Cyberhacker

Old-Salt
The argument in the past has been that the army will take them away for something army ish at the wrong moment.

Compare and contrast...

Airfield Damage Repair - the RAF's Main Operating Bases (ie those in Germany) had a dedicated RE(ADR) squadron... no more. 39 Engineer (in fact, 12 Group as a whole) is now Force Support.
Air Support Comms - 21 Signal Regiment is no longer dedicated to RAF comms... hence the growth in TCW
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Compare and contrast...

Airfield Damage Repair - the RAF's Main Operating Bases (ie those in Germany) had a dedicated RE(ADR) squadron... no more. 39 Engineer (in fact, 12 Group as a whole) is now Force Support.
Air Support Comms - 21 Signal Regiment is no longer dedicated to RAF comms... hence the growth in TCW
How many airfields does the RAF have in Germany now?
 

Cyberhacker

Old-Salt
All that other stuff gives CAS the ability to operate as an independent service, and I don’t see him giving that up.
The arrogance of the Army’s ‘we want to cut people, but we should cut yours so we don’t have to’ argument is sadly all too familiar.

Meanwhile, it seems it is OK for the Army to have a myriad of small independent fiefdoms (Corps etc) including coving all sorts of stuff in the other services' domains (air and sea)... but the idea of the RAF having their own "infantry" draws howls...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
It still (for the time being anyway) has a non-zero number of main operating bases though.
If you had read the post that you indignantly quoted you would have seen that it was in support of independence for the RAF but don't let the facts get in the way of a rant eh?

"
ugly said:
The argument in the past has been that the army will take them away for something army ish at the wrong moment."

This was missing:
"Whilst this is understandable (The fear) the fact is that even if we had a single defence force there would still be rivalry and petty jealousy pervading the decision making."

The post below it bears reading too:
"The answer is of course to leave airfield defence in the hands of the RAF, they could ask the apes to be a bit more humble but I suppose even staging on loses its shine after a while."
 

ZW Clanger

Old-Salt
Sorry if already mentioned but given the primary role of the RAF Regt; is there not an argument to simply extend (slightly) the remit of MPGS to cover what they do?

I appreciate MPGS are not deployable but all RAF bases abroad will by and large have an Army presence (not sure about Deigo Garcia but that’s a yank station anyway) and given that the Army are in situ surely they can cover the MPGS/RAF Regt role. The RN manage this in the ME.

Of course is the exception being the 2 Regt role of securing ‘new’ landing strips which would fall over to the Paras, may be Pathfinders.

If this is the case there a big defensive budget saving there which could be used of advancing tech/numbers/equipment etc.
 
Sorry if already mentioned but given the primary role of the RAF Regt; is there not an argument to simply extend (slightly) the remit of MPGS to cover what they do?

I appreciate MPGS are not deployable but all RAF bases abroad will by and large have an Army presence (not sure about Deigo Garcia but that’s a yank station anyway) and given that the Army are in situ surely they can cover the MPGS/RAF Regt role. The RN manage this in the ME.

Of course is the exception being the 2 Regt role of securing ‘new’ landing strips which would fall over to the Paras, may be Pathfinders.

If this is the case there a big defensive budget saving there which could be used of advancing tech/numbers/equipment etc.
You need to consider quite how clever and political the RAF are their PR machine leaves the Army in the gutter.

The current role of the RAF Regiment is:


The RAF Regiment is a specialist corps founded by Royal Warrant in 1942. Its principal purpose is to counter our adversaries across a wide spectrum of threats, wherever and whenever necessary.

The RAF Regiment also prepares non-Force Protection specialists for the rigours of operations.

The human dimension is at the core of what we are; people are our fighting edge.

The Complex Air Ground Environment (CAGE) – this environment in and around an operational airfield has many multifaceted levels requiring dedicated and specialist protection. Force Protection in the CAGE is our raison d’etre.

The RAF Regiment has seven regular and six reserve squadrons organised in to 7 wings.

In addition, the RAF Regiment provides Joint Terminal Attack Controllers (JTACs) to the British Army and Royal Marines, and provides a flight sized commitment to the Special Forces Support Group.

There are 6 Force Protection Wings based across the UK.

Two of the Wings are designated as the lead part of the Joint Expeditionary Force and are focused on RAF Police and RAF Regiment expeditionary capability inclusive of Armoured Vehicles (Wheeled) and Military Working Dogs.

The second Joint Expeditionary Force Wing also delivers RAF Ceremonial and Joint Terminal Attack Controller capability.

The 4 Multirole Force Protection Wings are tasked with providing a particular aircraft type or role with the necessary defence.

The Multirole Wings are responsible for a geographic security region with the home base as well as being the units of choice to deploy alongside their aligned aircraft types.


Or as we would say, stagging on :)
 
From April this year the 'multirole' FP Wgs disengaged from the UK role and went onto a readiness/trg cycle.

For what, is the question that is surely key to their continued existence.
 
Compare and contrast...

Airfield Damage Repair - the RAF's Main Operating Bases (ie those in Germany) had a dedicated RE(ADR) squadron... no more. 39 Engineer (in fact, 12 Group as a whole) is now Force Support.
Air Support Comms - 21 Signal Regiment is no longer dedicated to RAF comms... hence the growth in TCW
Even during the Cold War, the RE Construction Squadrons were never dedicated air the RAFs Main Operating Bases. That was their war role; they carried out Army operational commitments like Belize, FI and NI tours. 38 Engr Regt was similar in support of the Harrier Force.

My recollection is that 12 Bde / Gp was never funded by Strike. Some of the equipment was RAF funded, but the manpower was not. CRE (Airfields) was RAF funded which was why it wasn’t part of 12 Gps orbat and sat in RAFIO.

To me it makes sense to have changed the role. The assumptions about RAF expeditionary DOBs have changed significantly with the arrival of F35 and the carriers. It’s also absolutely in accordance with the time honoured principle of grouping and controlling engineers at the highest appropriate level.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
;)If all of the RAF's strike force is on loan to the Andrew then MPGS could do the job!

;)
 

mad_collie

Old-Salt
;)If all of the RAF's strike force is on loan to the Andrew then MPGS could do the job!

;)
I think the carriers would need to be lengthened just a tad to land a Typhoon. :-D
 
Weren’t one of the Queens (RL or RH?) doing stuff out on the Iraq/Iran border?

Op Snowdon, we had a full recce Sqn out on the border for a month or 2. That was back end of 2003 and was 9th/12th also. I seem to remember though various telics there was always something happening on the border. The DSC(Divisional surveillance company) which later became BRF were cutting around too in a light cav role.
 
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Rheinstorff

Old-Salt
From April this year the 'multirole' FP Wgs disengaged from the UK role and went onto a readiness/trg cycle.

For what, is the question that is surely key to their continued existence.

They didn't disengage from their UK role; this is disingenuous. The home-base RAF Police were reorganised under two of the wings, is my understanding. So, they can do an operational readiness cycle (so far, so similar to the other services), but presumably they can operate in the UK as much as overseas.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
They didn't disengage from their UK role; this is disingenuous. The home-base RAF Police were reorganised under two of the wings, is my understanding. So, they can do an operational readiness cycle (so far, so similar to the other services), but presumably they can operate in the UK as much as overseas.
Does the Spar on the patch need guarding?
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
Op Snowdon, we had a full recce Sqn out on the border for a month or 2. That was back end of 2003 and was 9th/12th also. I seem to remember though various telics there was always something happening on the border. The DSC(Divisional surveillance company) which later became BRF were cutting around too in a light cav role.

Yep, and had a busy old time intercepting all sorts of 'stuff' being sent over by the Iranians, as things became less permissive by the day.
 

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