Does the Common Core Course meet the needs of medics doing the job?

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by porcine detective, Aug 10, 2010.

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  1. Come on then I'm after some opinions, particularly from those who have recently been on ops not old crusty, lamp swinging, shiny arsed, puttie wearing REMFs like me, cos there's sod all feedback and let's face it who bothers with questionnaires!

    What's the training like? How could it be better? Does it meet the needs of what you've been doing? Would be blinding if anything was actually backed up with some facts but hey we're dealing in rumor.

    As an ex-brat Mod civvie (spit now) have my own opinions regarding what we're doing at the home of the RAMC but wait out.
  2. First of all we need to look at the role of CMT 1 and 2 on operations: what are we expecting of them? I would argue we are expecting increased autonomous practice with lack of MO oversight and treating Afghan colleagues (different endemic diseases) using translators. Basic skills like cannulation, examination of patients, and how to relay a case via radio to an MO need improving. I think there is an argument for experienced CMT1s (Cpl and above?) being able to dispense antibiotics after further training.

    What we really need to do is consider (research) what we want our medics (at a variety of levels) to be able to do, and then design courses and ongoing training and supporting protocols and equipment to meet that requirement. But like you say that probably won't happen!
  3. The OPS has been conducted and the course review is underway - this time it will happen........... :)
  4. Any news on a timescale? What's the feedback from ops are we actually producing what unit's want and do the medics we produce feel that the training gives them what they need? Thanks for the response.
  5. If you work at DMSTG then your boss is aware of what has happened......... to early to publish on here :)
  6. Is it true that a plan for CMTs to leave Keogh as a CMT 1 instead of Cl 2 was put on the table? I was there not too long back and heard whispers, i personally think that it would be a good idea if you look at the COE. Do we need a year learning tentage and exactly how many would deploy straight on Ops? Everyone needs to do a first tour at some point so why not as a Cl 1? Ideas/thoughts?
  7. No, you don't need a year to learn how to do tentage. But the army needs a while to work out who should be let near sick people and who should be encouraged to look to their strengths ie, BFA driving.
  8. Thought id just add a little to this.

    I have recently been on OPS and i can tell you that our CMT's are doing an absolutely blinding job out here.
    Thats class 1 & 2 treating all manner of injuries and illness.

    The idea of leaving DMSTG as a class 1 is something that has been discussed out here, and i believe is the only way we will be able to provide enough quality medics for future deployments. The problem with class 2's historically is they were not able to work unsupervised by a RMO,nurse or class 1. This is something that puts a huge strain on not only those who are meant to supervise but simply put, there are not enough people out here to do it!
    Medics can be spread pretty thin across an AO at times and so HAVE to work alone , and at the majority of times without any comms to an RMO. This has happened 90% of the time with trauma casualties from my experience out here so far.

    The issue is because the class 2's are meant to be supervised, the majority of them found themselves on the BLM crews. This has proven very unpopular and counter productive as they very very rarely got to do any med work at all, as the transit time for casualties is so short to the R3. In addition to this , as there are so few fully fit and deployable CMT 1's available it has meant they have been pushed to the limit when it comes to patrolling and general grafting on the ground.
    Those CMT 2's who i have seen deploy on the ground are fit, motivated and fully capable medics. With the only thing holding them back being that they are class 2's and are technically not able/allowed to do some of the more invasive techniques, for example IO.
    I would even like to point out that a few of the class 2 medics out here now who have been out on the ground are allot more skilled and drilled, not only in their med skills but also infantry skills, and have out shone by along way, quite a few of our more senior CMT 1's. Some of whom have still yet to go outside the wire or even to have a real time casualty in front of them!

    In short, there is now no real reason i can think of why CMT's should not leave Keogh as class 1's.

    And as for the

    ''the army needs a while to work out who should be let near sick people and who should be encouraged to look to their strengths ie, BFA driving.''

    comment, i think thats a pretty old school and very dated opinion, but also shows how out of touch that member is when it comes to the modern medical regiment. Anyone who shouldnt be let near a sick person shouldn't have left Keogh & also we now have enough RLC to do all the driving AND maintenance on the vehicles for us!

    I apologise for the long post but it is good to get things off your chest in an open and anonymous forum such as this with allot more past & present senior members of the AMS who may be able to get some of those people in the ivory tower talking!

  9. The main reason for keeping the Class 1 on hold is experience............. no-one would want a textbook Class 1 to be released from DMSTG directly to Ops, having served only a few months in the Army or a unit prior to deployment. The intention of seperating the two qualifications is to acknowledge proven (signed off) clinical experience, therefter each individual would be expected to maintain their skills through CCE and have this recorded for competancy.

    Also be wary of stating that we have enough RLC to do the driving and maintenance.................Kitchener has done for this capablity (amongst others).
  10. BK, great post and am in full agreement. As per my original message - i am sure that Glasgow could work it out for the newly qualified CMT 1 goes to a unit due to deploy further down the OCP, i know they are needed now but it wouldnt be long before it caught up and was in full swing and its not as though every nube would deploy straight away. As BK mentions regarding the CMT 2, at least a new CMT 1 working on the BLM gaining some experience could go outside the wire to a PB/FOB and is not tied to a doc/Cl 1. We all had to do a first tour at some point.
  11. not real old school, i came out of Keogh (as an RCMT, not a CMT, admittedly, so not overly familiar with the working of a med reg ) in 2007 and there were people who I would have grave doubts about letting near people, Not many, but as usual you get the entire range of ability, from the brilliant to the shite.

    Please note I am not saying that the CMT 2's that are out there are not capable and competent. Most are. I'm just making the point that a minority aren't.

    To quote you "Those CMT 2's who I have seen deploy on the ground..." are those who you have seen on the ground. As have I. Most are very good, having skills and drills equal to the (inf) unit they're attached to.
    However there are many who you haven't seen. There are always some who are better suited to stores or similar, in any branch of the army.

    Apologies if it seemed I was slagging off every CMT 2 and for dragging this slightly off topic.
  12. Fake_Welshman

    No problem i know what your saying about some CMT 2's and lets be honest CMT 1's who are not up to scratch by any means. It has always been a problem for the CMT trade and the rest of the army im sure, those who shouldnt have passed through basic training let alone phase 2!

    Maybe they should bring back the old CMT storeman trade or pathway back? at least that would mean there should be no chance that person would get there hands on a patient!


  13. CMT storeman trade? as in CMT's that work in the QM department? it has never left, if you are referring to Med Storeman, they were a separate entity from CMT's, nowadays these are add quals for CMT's.
  14. Med Storeman..................another completely unnecessary add qual....................IMHO