Does anyone think the TA suffer from a lack of discipline?

And also a lack of understanding about the CoC and rank?

It seems because the organisation is only part time people have trouble "switching" between Army life and civi life?

We spend hours teaching about SOLID C to recruits but it seems the army is too scared to spend too much time on the D as they probably think it will cause too many issues with people getting carried away "policing" it?
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
From my experience the TA are a bunch of useless fukwits. But that's purely my opinion, and it's from working with a small number of TA in the past.

I hope that the rest of the TA doesn't follow suit.
 

Lumpy

Old-Salt
PrinceAlbert said:
From my experience the TA are a bunch of useless fukwits. But that's purely my opinion, and it's from working with a small number of TA in the past.

I hope that the rest of the TA doesn't follow suit.

You would find that a lot of the TA feel the same about Regs. In no way starting a TA/Regs debate, but its generally the ones with attitude and inability (on both sides) who are remembered.....
 
PrinceAlbert said:
From my experience the TA are a bunch of useless fukwits. But that's purely my opinion, and it's from working with a small number of TA in the past.

I hope that the rest of the TA doesn't follow suit.

There are plenty of regular army who fit your 'fcukwits' description too. By the same comparison, some TA blokes I've worked with are so keen I was shocked to find out they weren't regs.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
skintboymike said:
PrinceAlbert said:
From my experience the TA are a bunch of useless fukwits. But that's purely my opinion, and it's from working with a small number of TA in the past.

I hope that the rest of the TA doesn't follow suit.

There are plenty of regular army who fit your 'fcukwits' description too. By the same comparison, some TA blokes I've worked with are so keen I was shocked to find out they weren't regs.

Granted.

Not that keen obviously ;)
 
bibo_boy said:
And also a lack of understanding about the CoC and rank?

It seems because the organisation is only part time people have trouble "switching" between Army life and civi life?

We spend hours teaching about SOLID C to recruits but it seems the army is too scared to spend too much time on the D as they probably think it will cause too many issues with people getting carried away "policing" it?

I don't know who the 'we' is in your comment, but think how many hours are available to train TA soldiers on topics that they perhaps don't need quite so much as the Regulars. Back in the day we had lots of ways of maintaining discipline that just didn't occur to our Regular brethren. OK so we all know not to call our Corporals 'Dave' or the RSM 'mate', but making sure that a job gets done is often more important than worrying about how it gets done.

If you think that the TA approach to discipline is getting in the way of effective operations in the field, then that's another matter. Do you?
 
angular said:
bibo_boy said:
OK so we all know not to call our Corporals 'Dave' or the RSM 'mate', but making sure that a job gets done is often more important than worrying about how it gets done.

If you think that the TA approach to discipline is getting in the way of effective operations in the field, then that's another matter. Do you?

From my experience, not everyone does know this...

All I'm saying is that the majority of people I see in the TA don't maintain the CoC concept.

I might be "blinkered", that's why I'm asking if it's a general issue or not?

Not a WAH :D
 
Its a bit more difficult to explain to young TA soldiers that people they work with are senior to them as its an abstract concept from what they experience in the civvy work / university. Its easy for them to learn if they see it in action. If you let a Pte big time it in front of higher ranks then other Ptes might not realise why that kind of conduct isn't appropriate in the work environment.
 
I don't insist on being called Sgt x by my juniors as they all know that I am in charge and respect that. The only time I tend to use rank when talking to my troops is when I am wanting to make a point.

That doesn't mean we suffer from a lack of discipline, it just means that we all know the rules and don't need the formal structure all the time to remind us of them. Obviously if I am talking to someone who I don't work with day in / day out (in TA terms obviously) then I play the part.
 
The TA that i've worked with have always been spot on, professional, overly rigid and there always a dodgy builder/mechanic/financial advisor to help you out. Good on you! This thread is a blatant wind up!
 
IDONTNEEDAHAIRCUT said:
I don't insist on being called Sgt x by my juniors as they all know that I am in charge and respect that. The only time I tend to use rank when talking to my troops is when I am wanting to make a point.

That doesn't mean we suffer from a lack of discipline, it just means that we all know the rules and don't need the formal structure all the time to remind us of them. Obviously if I am talking to someone who I don't work with day in / day out (in TA terms obviously) then I play the part.

Sounds perfect :) I'm the same and not on some power trip, but I find that I'm having to "remind" people alot at the moment....

Another concern is that they will fall into relaxed mode when with people they don't know are around....
 
I wouldn't say lack of discipline, some people seem a bit over familiar but thats the nature of the beast that is the TA.

"Aint that right John.... sorry.. Sir!" :D

Myself I stick to ranks until your in the bar then first names unless they wear a big badge!

Strangley Colonel Foreskin Crumb insisted I call him "The Grand Koobar" when on the pop but thats another story.
 

Gren

LE
Rank structure and discipline or respect of rank, always has and probably always will, only work in certain situations and scenarios.

We all, be it Regular or TA, have mates who are ranks above or below us, and what we call each other depends on the situation we are in.
I had a mate who was a CSM, when I was just a SGT, I would call him Dave off duty or out of earshot of bigwigs, but in most other situations, it would be sir.
Same with the lads, to them in the field or wherever, if there were no WO's or Orafices about, I was Shaun or any variation that suited the moment :) but if there were people around it would be Sarnt (sorry guards way)
And that works across all rank groups, regardless of the rank, its just a matter of having the nounce to apply the correct amount of respect and judgement to the given situation.

The TA has the problem, that given the majority of the people concerned are more of the time civi than soldier, you have to allow for the more laid back approach, to a degree.
That said, if something needs doing, and a higher rank tells you to do it, then it should be done, regardless of what your civi life tells you.
As should the way you are addressed, by other ranks, in given situations.

Rank has its place, and discipline in the respect of rank, only works if you have respect for the person wearing it.
 

stapd

Old-Salt
bibo_boy said:
I'm wondering if the training could be changed to reflect this as most of our issues are based around this problem....

One minute whilst I dig a shellscrape... done.

Ok, here goes... if this is a big issue within the unit perhaps you should raise it with your CoC?

Ready for incoming...

stapd
 
IDONTNEEDAHAIRCUT said:
I don't insist on being called Sgt x by my juniors as they all know that I am in charge and respect that. The only time I tend to use rank when talking to my troops is when I am wanting to make a point.

This is where you could fall down, you cant switch from being matey matey to suddenly being Sgt when you want it to be so, in my experience it can lead to confusion and the juniors will (as is human nature) try to exploit this and the whinge is that you swap from one to another at a whim.

The way I worked it (the only time I came into contact with the TA was being attached to a TA unit on Telic) was the same way I worked it with Regs, they called me sir but I would in day to day conversation call them if I knew them well enough by their first name, if I called them by their rank then it was for a number of reasons such as discipline, senior officers being present, calling to them at a distance or discussing them with others who didnt know them by anything other than their rank and last name.

Being over familiar leads to all sorts of problems, the lower rank should always call the SNCO/WO/Officer by their rank or title.
 

stapd

Old-Salt
Gren said:
Rank structure and discipline or respect of rank, always has and probably always will, only work in certain situations and scenarios.

We all, be it Regular or TA, have mates who are ranks above or below us, and what we call each other depends on the situation we are in.
I had a mate who was a CSM, when I was just a SGT, I would call him Dave off duty or out of earshot of bigwigs, but in most other situations, it would be sir.
Same with the lads, to them in the field or wherever, if there were no WO's or Orafices about, I was Shaun or any variation that suited the moment :) but if there were people around it would be Sarnt (sorry guards way)
And that works across all rank groups, regardless of the rank, its just a matter of having the nounce to apply the correct amount of respect and judgement to the given situation.

The TA has the problem, that given the majority of the people concerned are more of the time civi than soldier, you have to allow for the more laid back approach, to a degree.
That said, if something needs doing, and a higher rank tells you to do it, then it should be done, regardless of what your civi life tells you.
As should the way you are addressed, by other ranks, in given situations.

Rank has its place, and discipline in the respect of rank, only works if you have respect for the person wearing it.

Short response - what he said.

Long response.

I learned my personal lesson on familiarity on the gun position - having been away from the crew all night on recce, came back, got dibbed as brew/breakfast bitch. Shouted "Hey Steve, want an egg banjo" not quite at the top of my voice, but certainly loud enough for Badge and visiting Brigadier who came under the camnet just at that moment - Badge consumed all the Banjos and my card got marked until a change of Badge.

You guess which got me more of a shoeing from the crew :D

Post that, didn't matter how familiar the crew generally was, I stuck to rank outside of the bar.
 

dorkblatt

Old-Salt
Obviously the great lord UMPETY POO is not talked about any more, probably the PC brigade has consigned him to some back office of the MOD training establishment :twisted: -has any of you heard of him?
 
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