Does 4x4 = Gas Guzzling?

#1
BBC’s lead item early this morning had me grumping my way out of the shower. Why must the media preface 4x4 with “gas guzzling” - are the two inextricably linked? I am certain that a fair proportion of trade-vans (white or otherwise) and aging, ill-maintained family saloons produce far worse emissions and consume more fuel than my 4x4. I detest Journo tunnel vision and am convinced that it is simply a means of “conditioning” the public.
 
#2
Don't forget the Fiat Panda 4x4...
 
#3
Heard the same/similar news item on Radio 4 about increased parking permit charges for fuel inefficient cars in the borough of Richmond. A very good idea I thought although I'd agree that the term 4x4 is inaccurate when really what is being spoken of is poor fuel consumption (bearing in mind that this will include many 4x4s).
 
#5
I need a 4x4 for work (Civil Engineering). At present I have a Diesel Toyota Landcruiser (Prado?) and I get about 25 MPG - that's far better than a petrol BMW 7 series or a Jag but they are not frowned upon. We also have a fleet of Diesel Freelanders that get on average 35 MPG - pretty much the same as a petrol Mondeo or Passat.

Why aren't luxury sedans targetted as eco-unfriendly?

And yes, we have dozens of subbies that have clapped out transits and hi-aces that spew out fumes all day long - not a word about them
 
#6
Ronnie8781 said:
My car is a 4x4, its a 2 litre diesel, does that make it any worse than a Golf TDi??
I know what you mean, my (diesel) 4x4 does 35 MPG - have you checked out the shocking statistics for a petrol driven Ford Fiesta? 32 MPG!!

Bloody gas guzzling family hatchbacks!!
 

diplomat

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#7
They can tax all they want. If you leave in the SE an easy solution:

Just get an accommodation address in Calais (plenty available there), register in France and then you can legally drive in UK. Just pop over occassionally for duty free shopping so that there is a record of you going to France and problem solved! My contacts reckon there at least a couple of thousand people doing this already around Kent.
 
#8
diplomat said:
They can tax all they want. If you leave in the SE an easy solution:

Just get an accommodation address in Calais (plenty available there), register in France and then you can legally drive in UK. Just pop over occassionally for duty free shopping so that there is a record of you going to France and problem solved! My contacts reckon there at least a couple of thousand people doing this already around Kent.
Ah yes, the well know part of England known as Southern Kent.

It is all real nonsense driven by the Treasury, real Stealth Tax all dressed up in Green. The bands are rigged.

For example, in Band F evil Chrysler Voyager and a Mercedes S class diesels are in the same CO2 class as that planet destroyer, a VW Passat 1.9TDi

If you look at petrol cars, Band F STARTS with the ultimate evil of a Mondeo 1.8.

Want a band A car, Co2 friendly, £0 VED?? There are none. Not one. Nix. Nil. Nothing.

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch.asp

The tests themselves are odd:

"Because of the need to maintain strict comparability of results achieved by the standard tests they cannot be fully representative of real-life driving conditions. Firstly, it is not practicable to test each individual new car; thus only one production car is tested as being representative of the model and may therefore produce a better or worse result than another similar vehicle. Secondly, there are infinite variations in driving styles and in road, car and weather conditions, all of which can have a bearing on the results achieved. For these reasons the consumption achieved on the road will not necessarily accord with the official test results"
 
#9
whistler said:
I know what you mean, my (diesel) 4x4 does 35 MPG - have you checked out the shocking statistics for a petrol driven Ford Fiesta? 32 MPG!!
We used to have a 51 plate estate car but got a diesel 4x4 because it had significantly better fuel consumption!! Mine does around 35 mpg, although it probably is even more than that. Oh well handy I can't afford to live in Richmond :)
 
#10
My 21 year old Range Rover does an outstanding 14mpg (its a V8 petrol)
However when you consider the enery consumed manufacturing new cars it makes it quite eco-friendly.
Besides unless we drain all the rice paddies, bump off every cow on the planet and plug every volcano we aren't going to effectively cut carbon emmisions anyway.
We all know it so all this crap about charging us for owning gas guzzlers is just a revenue generating excersise anyway
 
#11
I had a Shogun/Pajero 2.5td 4x4, I sold that and bought a vectra 2.5 v6. have a guess which one was cheaper to run ?

I get 22 MPG in the vec. I'm thinking of getting LPG fitted so i can do a big FU to the brown man!
 
#12
I had a 3.2V6 Trooper as my shooting wagon for a while. 3.2?? EVIL! Err, no. LPG conversion meant the equivalent of 30mpg without even trying.

Range Rover V8 4.6 borrowed for a while and I reckon I was still getting at least 20mpg. Same with Merc ML350 - it's all down to driving style and using torque correctly with big capacity engines.

However, when it's a Doris doing the Chelsea Tractor school run in her V8 Auto that never even sees mud to deliver 1 sprog, then you get a thirst that's unbelievable as she crawls along in the rush hour, heavy on the loud pedal, then heavy on the slow pedal.

Same goes for Diesel Discos etc blatting down Lane 3 at 90mph + - they ain't designed to do that and the poor wee engine is chucking out more nasties than you would believe.

The 4x4 is being used as a whipping boy because lazy arrsed journos can't be bothered to go and get a story outside of London, and there are a lot of nice shiny blinged up 4x4 infesting the town. If they went out into the real world, they would find that (a) people do need 4x4 if they live in the sticks or they can get stuck in the sloppy stuff (b) have to pay considerably more in servicing, parts etc and wouldn't put themselves to the extra expense if they didn't bloody well have to! Mind you, if you live in an urban area and never go anywhere slippy then you are a tit by definition.

Also, the electric car that was being praised on R4 needs the full battery change after 16k, and gets it's electricity from POWER STATIONS. YES THOSE BIG THINGS WITH ENORMOUS CHIMNEYS SITUATED IN PLACES WHERE THE POOR PEOPLE LIVE THAT BURN FOSSIL FUELS YOU TITS.

And since when was Bamber Sodding Gascoigne an expert on CO2 emissions? Grr.
 
#13
Civvy_Shot said:
I had a 3.2V6 Trooper as my shooting wagon for a while. 3.2?? EVIL! Err, no. LPG conversion meant the equivalent of 30mpg without even trying.

Range Rover V8 4.6 borrowed for a while and I reckon I was still getting at least 20mpg. Same with Merc ML350 - it's all down to driving style and using torque correctly with big capacity engines.

However, when it's a Doris doing the Chelsea Tractor school run in her V8 Auto that never even sees mud to deliver 1 sprog, then you get a thirst that's unbelievable as she crawls along in the rush hour, heavy on the loud pedal, then heavy on the slow pedal.

Same goes for Diesel Discos etc blatting down Lane 3 at 90mph + - they ain't designed to do that and the poor wee engine is chucking out more nasties than you would believe.

The 4x4 is being used as a whipping boy because lazy arrsed journos can't be bothered to go and get a story outside of London, and there are a lot of nice shiny blinged up 4x4 infesting the town. If they went out into the real world, they would find that (a) people do need 4x4 if they live in the sticks or they can get stuck in the sloppy stuff (b) have to pay considerably more in servicing, parts etc and wouldn't put themselves to the extra expense if they didn't bloody well have to! Mind you, if you live in an urban area and never go anywhere slippy then you are a tit by definition.

Also, the electric car that was being praised on R4 needs the full battery change after 16k, and gets it's electricity from POWER STATIONS. YES THOSE BIG THINGS WITH ENORMOUS CHIMNEYS SITUATED IN PLACES WHERE THE POOR PEOPLE LIVE THAT BURN FOSSIL FUELS YOU TITS.

And since when was Bamber Sodding Gascoigne an expert on CO2 emissions? Grr.
And if his dinky toy ever breaks down, I do hope the mechanic does not resist the temptation to say "Your starter for ten" and charges him a couple of hundred.
 
#14
With our roads already congested and oil reserves declining its madeness that the lastest motoring fashion accessories are un-necessarily large and uneconomical 4X4s. For example a new Mercedes 4x4 GL 420 V8 diesel does 24 mpg and emits 307g of CO2 per km. A Peugeot 207 1.4 diesel will do 62mpg and emits 120g of CO2 per km. 4x4s are also more dangerous to pedestrians in accidents and even more if fitted with those utterly pointless and highly dangerous bull bars which focus all the kinetic energy across a very small area. Lets tax the arrse off them.
 
#15
Jacques_Bustard said:
With our roads already congested and oil reserves declining its madeness that the lastest motoring fashion accessories are un-necessarily large and uneconomical 4X4s. For example a new Mercedes 4x4 GL 420 V8 diesel does 24 mpg and emits 307g of CO2 per km. A Peugeot 207 1.4 diesel will do 62mpg and emits 120g of CO2 per km. 4x4s are also more dangerous to pedestrians in accidents and even more if fitted with those utterly pointless and highly dangerous bull bars which focus all the kinetic energy across a very small area. Lets tax the arrse off them.
Fecl off you knob, mine does the same mpg as a golf tdi and emits the same co2- according to certificate of conformity, so why should I get taxed more? Just in case some twa t decides to cross the road in front of my car?? Do one.
 
#16
Jacques_Bustard said:
With our roads already congested and oil reserves declining its madeness that the lastest motoring fashion accessories are un-necessarily large and uneconomical 4X4s. For example a new Mercedes 4x4 GL 420 V8 diesel does 24 mpg and emits 307g of CO2 per km. A Peugeot 207 1.4 diesel will do 62mpg and emits 120g of CO2 per km. 4x4s are also more dangerous to pedestrians in accidents and even more if fitted with those utterly pointless and highly dangerous bull bars which focus all the kinetic energy across a very small area. Lets tax the arrse off them.
Oh look, someone else getting on the 'all 4x4s are bad' bandwagon.

Not all 4x4s are massive polluters. The Merc is about as bad as you can get. Vehicles like this and the X5 are extremely unlikely to ever go near the mud, and don't get me started on civvy Hummers...This the naughty end of a scale that starts with the Fiat Panda (and at one stage Merc were going to launch a 4wd A Class), goes through 4x4 added to 'normal' saloon estate (Scoobaru for example), carries on through the softroaders (CRV etc) up to full size SUV (Disco/Shogun) and then gets silly.

The issue should be the ownership of SUVs where they are bought as status symbols, not to do the job as intended. BUT if you just look at CO2 and consumption then you basically knock the 'all 4x4 bad' argument into the long grass because there are plenty of 'normal' cars out there chucking out more CO2 than half the 4x4s on the market.

It also costs more in environmental terms to build a new car than run an old one so my old 3.2 '94 Trooper was a good guy compared to the 'normal' Toyota that replaced when the Doris wouldn't drive it (sigh).

The whole point of Richmond banging up the parking charges was an example of (a) how much can we screw out of people to park outside their houses, and (b) blatant don't give a toss about the rest of the UK. Why?

Because it was a scheme to reduce Richmond council's CO2 footprint, and the electric car was touted as the ideal replacement. FFS, notice any power stations in Tw@tmond on Thames?? They're all nicely hidden away away from the burghers. Obviously the CO2 produced by the power station wouldn't dream of contaminating the atmosphere of Richmond...?
 
#17
Well I see this thread is dominated by the 4 x 4 drivers then.

Anyone else with anything to say? Either 4x4 drivers who don't live anywhere near the country , or hot hatch drivers who can get 100 MPG out of a petrol soaked hankie?
 
#18
AWD might use a bit more fuel but they are also a lot safer,traction control on all wheels helps!

I drive a Subaru Legacy with LPG gas,have been driving for 30 years and have never had a better or more reliable car;BMW´s and Mercs,had them all and they just can´t compare with my Jap.

Subaru have also brought out an `Ecomatic`System that saves an amazing 50 % of fuel(as opposed to 30% on most systems),and is 30% cheaper than diesel vehs.Diesel engines can´t be converted.
 

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#19
if you need a 4X4 for work or cause you live in the sticks shoot etc then don't really have a problem.
if your doris and you brought one to keep your child safe on the school run or cause you think its cool .
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/video/view_broadband/519.html
please watch this video and realize most people think your a twat.
Chelsea tractors are ridiculous and if you drive them in a city your ridiculous
a 911 probably use's as much fuel but isn't more dangerous to other road users example http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15349057/from/ET/?GT1=8618 a very extreme case but proves you can be a total git in an SUV and other road users will pay the price :twisted:
feel free to drive a 4x4 and I'll feel free to mock you remember footballers like to drive rangerover sports and they make ptis look manly :p
 
#20
PartTimePongo said:
Well I see this thread is dominated by the 4 x 4 drivers then.

Anyone else with anything to say? Either 4x4 drivers who don't live anywhere near the country , or hot hatch drivers who can get 100 MPG out of a petrol soaked hankie?
PTP: I'm not a 4x4 owner anymore as I don't need one where I now live. My rant was with unnecessary Chelsea Tractors letting lazy journos & spacktard local politicians use the 4x4 'issue' to start something that will end up with people who rely on 4x4 (rural areas, farmers, on site etc) being kicked in the knackers. Rural areas especially have crap public transport, expensive fuel and if it snows don't see a gritter for ages. Still have to get to work! The environmental issue becomes clouded if all you do is move the problem from the exhaust pipe to the power station burning fossil fuels.

Current car? Diesel Vectra!
 

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