Do you feel lucky? New 5.56

#3
I would think that any article containing this line,

The traditional bullets are designed to wound an enemy fighter so comrades are distracted and go to their aid

would give a good indication as to the reporters understanding of anything.

Having now read the whole article I would be surprised if the "reporter" Kate Mansey can actually dress herself in the morning.
 
#5
Just create a 400 metre long bayonet instead, they don't like it up em.

Edit: Except on Thursday.
 
#6
Forum: Current Affairs, News and Analysis

Politics, Current Affairs, Geo-Political Analysis. For Daily Mail stories please use The Int Cell!
 
#7
?

Explain CQMS, I'm no munitions expert but I was always had the understanding that our current rounds were originally designed to cause maximum damage on the enemy without killing them. The theory being that an injured soldier will waste the enemies resources as his comrades try to treat him and casevac him. Ideal theory if your fighting a cold war pitched battle, not so important in todays climate where enemy fighter aren't so highly valued by there own side.
 
#8
Ammunition is designed to render an enemy ineffective, whether by fear wounds or death it matters not. Speculation about their attitude to wounded comrades does not form any part of the design.

It is in fact a flawed argument, we are duty bound to assist a wounded enemy, they are not.

Edited to add:

Ask any doctor if you can start making 5.56mm holes in people with the expectation that they won't die and see what he says.
 
#9
?

Explain CQMS, I'm no munitions expert but I was always had the understanding that our current rounds were originally designed to cause maximum damage on the enemy without killing them. The theory being that an injured soldier will waste the enemies resources as his comrades try to treat him and casevac him. Ideal theory if your fighting a cold war pitched battle, not so important in todays climate where enemy fighter aren't so highly valued by there own side.
If a bullet is only designed to wound, that would allow the enemy to continue to fire his weapon, push the button to fire his suicide vest etc etc

The standard ammunition on issue to troops is not and never has been designed to wound.
 
#10
If a bullet is only designed to wound, that would allow the enemy to continue to fire his weapon, push the button to fire his suicide vest etc etc

The standard ammunition on issue to troops is not and never has been designed to wound.
When we went from the SLR to the IW, we were told it was to wound hence the round being half the weight, we were also told that engagements of the future would be generally at 300m or less.

These decisions made in the late 70's now come back to haunt us.
 
#11
When we went from the SLR to the IW, we were told it was to wound hence the round being half the weight, we were also told that engagements of the future would be generally at 300m or less.

These decisions made in the late 70's now come back to haunt us.
What was your employment when you were told that? Perhaps more pertinently, who told you it?

I only ask because I was always taught to aim for a hit at centre of mass of the target. That was almost always an area covering the vital organs. It would take a lucky high velocity round striking the vital organs to intentionaly wound, not kill.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
I think it's because of the upcoming EU ban on lead-based ammunition. Apparently, lead is not good for you if ingested, at any velocity.

Edited to add: Expanding ammo is also bad for you, so that got banned too.

Apparently, if you tickle someone too much, they can shit themselves, leading to nappy rash - which is also bad for you.
 
#16
When we went from the SLR to the IW, we were told it was to wound hence the round being half the weight, we were also told that engagements of the future would be generally at 300m or less.
Well I was at IDB at Warminster when it was introduced and was generally under the impression that the reason for the IW was that the ammo was lighter, the weapon itself was more accurate and, being shorter, easier to handle than the SLR. There was a whole load of other stuff of course, about Fire Teams and tactics etc etc, but nobody ever mentioned we'd introduced the thing because of some odd desire to wound our enemies instead of killing them. I'm pretty farking sure that would ring bell even now, 24 years later!

These decisions made in the late 70's now come back to haunt us.
Err noo, they haven't. I'm not aware of any great clamour from the lads in the 'ghan for the reintroduction of the SLR and heavier ammo all round, are you? They were pretty quiet about it in Iraq too if I recall correctly.
 
P

pp0470

Guest
#17
But I want to maim them :(
My fav post so far...

I have also heard the 'wound rather than kill' adage from many sources.

Similarly, I have heard of it taking 3 mags (i.e. more than 60 rounds aimed at) to put an advancing, adrenaline fuelled Terry on his back with current rounds.
 
R

randomgary

Guest
#18
wasnt the sa80 designed around a different calibre (between 5.56 and 7.62) and just as it was being finalised we had our arms majorly twisted to go with 5.56 as the new nato standard.

forget what was best and it does this, that and the other! politics choose the calibre for us
 
#19
Err noo, they haven't. I'm not aware of any great clamour from the lads in the 'ghan for the reintroduction of the SLR and heavier ammo all round, are you? They were pretty quiet about it in Iraq too if I recall correctly.
You might want to look into that one. There is a thread on here covering such a IWS for the lads out there now. I believe the same problem was encountered on TELIC with the GPMG being favoured for it's penetration ability.
 
#20
wasnt the sa80 designed around a different calibre (between 5.56 and 7.62) and just as it was being finalised we had our arms majorly twisted to go with 5.56 as the new nato standard.

forget what was best and it does this, that and the other! politics choose the calibre for us


SA80 was originally a 4.85 weapon
 

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