Do we really need Military Hospitals?

Is the NHS good enough for injured British Soldiers?

  • I don't care a toss, it won't happen to me!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
#1
The top brass have had their collars felt by the politicians and shut the military hospitals down. The MDHU carrot to soften the blow has not served the service population well. Gen (Retd) Jackson was recently interviewed on Sunday AM via video link to his library at home on the subject. He was wearing a splendid brown cardigan and looked in good health. His point was that in principal we still needed exclusively military secondary care medical facilities but acknowledged there were budgetary constraints. My questions to you all are:

1. Do we still need a military hospital?
2. If so, what size should it be and what specialities should it offer?
3. Should it be stand alone or attached to an NHS hospital?
4. Where should it be?
5. Would it aid retention?
6. Whose head do we need to bang against a wall?
7. Does a bear really shit in the woods?

As for Jacko! The Baird health centre in London is a thin veneer of effective primary care specifically designed to convince the schemers in Main Building that the AMS works (sorry DMS). As long as the Generals are looked after then the rest of the Armed Forces can go rot! Obviously going by the state of his teeth the DDS didn't do him much good! Ha! I bet the General Staff and their families all have private health care cover!
 
#2
LtTrousersnake said:
1. Do we still need a military hospital?
2. If so, what size should it be and what specialities should it offer?
3. Should it be stand alone or attached to an NHS hospital?
4. Where should it be?
5. Would it aid retention?
6. Whose head do we need to bang against a wall?
7. Does a bear really s*** in the woods?
Answers
1. Hell yes
2. THEY(not THE, as in multiple not singular) should be small units, similar to the Musgrave Park model no larger than 30 beds
3. refer to answer two - but Yes - to gain access to all necessary services
4. They will be with/close too the Super Garrisons
5. refer to answer one - and aid the return of military ethos to secondary care
6. whoever holds the purse strings!
7. refer to answer one
 
#3
Bedpan2zero said:
Answers
1. Hell yes
2. THEY(not THE, as in multiple not singular) should be small units, similar to the Musgrave Park model no larger than 30 beds
3. refer to answer two - but Yes - to gain access to all necessary services
4. They will be with/close too the Super Garrisons
5. refer to answer one - and aid the return of military ethos to secondary care
6. whoever holds the purse strings!
7. refer to answer one
Exactly.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#4
LtTrousersnake said:
Ha! I bet the General Staff and their families all have private health care cover!
Funny you should mention that...BUPA being the one whose posters I see most often....I asked one of the Aeromed guys in Selly Oak what difference 'going private' made....he laughed.....quite a bit......certainly as far as initial treatment goes it doesn't make a blind bit of difference - if you come a cropper in Iraq or AFG or Kosovo you'll be in the same ward as Sapper Snooks, Trooper Feckdust and Rifleman Agulabilongatatmowa pal....however, same guy was LOUD in his urgings for anyone who deploys to take out something like a PAX policy....your choice I guess.

I don't know that private healthcare patients get any different treatment once they LEAVE what the snakey people call the 'Care Pathway' - sure as shoot don't while they're in the Casevac chain and down as far as Headley Court, to my knowledge.

I'm sure BUPA would LOVE to get their hands on DMRC and charge earth-shattering amounts of money to treat people there......seems to me that it is probably one of the pre-eminent rehab clinics in the UK, but I haven't been through as a patient. Know any jump jockeys? They could probably tell you.

I 'spose you could ask some of the guys who've been through RCDM in the last two years whether they thought they'd have got better treatment elsewhere.

( I'm still a bit forked...uh..conflicted by your proposition - in my heart, I feel the attraction of a Mil facility for Mil people becausae its all part of that 'All of One company' We look after Our Own thang........but looking at an Army which can now be accommodated in its entirety in the new Wembley Stadium, all the arguments about currency and facilities and concentration of expertise are nibbling away at me. What I might do is look into becoming a Hospital Visitor with a Service background and see for myself how Service casualties are treated OUTSIDE the RCDM /MDHU net....)


Don 'Decisive' Cabra
 
#5
Bedpan2zero said:
LtTrousersnake said:
1. Do we still need a military hospital?
2. If so, what size should it be and what specialities should it offer?
3. Should it be stand alone or attached to an NHS hospital?
4. Where should it be?
5. Would it aid retention?
6. Whose head do we need to bang against a wall?
7. Does a bear really s*** in the woods?
Answers
1. Hell yes
2. THEY(not THE, as in multiple not singular) should be small units, similar to the Musgrave Park model no larger than 30 beds
3. refer to answer two - but Yes - to gain access to all necessary services
4. They will be with/close too the Super Garrisons
5. refer to answer one - and aid the return of military ethos to secondary care
6. whoever holds the purse strings!
7. refer to answer one

DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO
 
#6
Biggest mistake ever made closing down Military Hospitals!
Cant believe that politicians and nodding dog Senior Officers keep spouting the same old bollox that we werent getting the clinical exposure required.

In my trade our clinical exposure is toss compared to what it used to be, we need to go on deployment to get anywhere near as close to what we had at somewhere like the CMH.
 
#7
the answer really should be yes,

however what are the realistic options ?

tagging small units (<100 beds) on to existing Acute hospital sites might work - it seems to work quite well for some private hospitals ... there is the advantage there of keeping the unit in a military frame of mind although would it work for critical care, A+E or theatres staff?

a single 5-600 bed hospital would be nice ( to provide the levle of throughput to justify the full range of services a modern DGH offers, never mind a teaching hospital? - still wouldn't necessarily work for some staff groups unless it had a civilian remit as well

a backwards MDHU might be an option - but there is still the issue of tying deployable staff to blightly to keep the hospital staffed ( else face big NHSP or agency bills when operational tempo is increased ...)

on that theme development of a teaching hospital with a civ role but a more military management might be an option but it would limit the training opportunities for the trainign grade doctors and military students ( although ifthe MDHUs remain they could continue to be sent around and about as well as going to civvie facilities near other military bases or 'home')
 
#8
I cannot believe that there is even a discussion on this subject; The answer is clear.

If the military Hospitals were as crap as the revisionists and apologists in the NHS and MOD would have us believe now I would like them to consider the following.

I worked at both the CMH (Aldershot for the foetus level amongst us) and QEMH Woolwich.

Both were 100% Army and scraped in all the difficult and expensive cases that the NHS did not want to work on as well as all the military patients.

So, okay, in the UK we lacked certain skills because the MOD would not pay for duplicating the NHS such as paediatrics but when it came to trauma, cancer (which often replicates trauma in surgery results + recovery patterns) and rehab/physio we wiped the floor with the local NHS hospitals.

We were the default option for a 50 mile radius for those who bit car windscreens, had cranial and maxfax cancer, major physio issues etc. as well as p[roviding a CLASS 1 military focused post operative care system.

What we have now is a return flight on a charter carrier and an invitation to join the queue at the local accountancy managed sticking plaster and bullshit dispenery....about five down the queue from those who are busy exerting their "human right" to have their teenage tattoos removed because the one on the left arm says KEVIN and the last babyfather they had was LEROY.
 
#9
At the next election, this pipe dream of ours may become a reality. The government will soon have to apologise to the Armed Forces amongst many other groups. By then the casualty figures (god help us) may see a turn round on treasury spending on DMS secondary care. Something along the lines of "we're sorry for the lies and these fruitless wars.........it is time to look after our real national heros (the soldiers). We're going to scrap the olympics, cut benefits, stop raiding the pension fund and solve the immigration problem" That should do it Mr Cameron.
 
#10
Don't hold your breath on any of this happening as long as DMS/SG keep saying everything is fine and dandy in Forces medical care land :pissedoff:

Politicians out of power will promise the earth to get into power........and then you wait.......and wait until something happens that they promised on their manifesto.......and the Conservatives did all this damage in the first place.......
 
#11
If only senior RAMC bods in positions of power had had the spuds to stand up to the politicians about Mil Hospitals in the first place.
The demise of the AMS is largely down to these closures and now our soldiers are the ones suffering.
 
#12
Filbert Fox said:
If only senior RAMC bods in positions of power had had the spuds to stand up to the politicians about Mil Hospitals in the first place.
The demise of the AMS is largely down to these closures.
And therein our problem lies...............
 
#13
Furryturd said:
I cannot believe that there is even a discussion on this subject; The answer is clear.

If the military Hospitals were as crap as the revisionists and apologists in the NHS and MOD would have us believe now I would like them to consider the following.

I worked at both the CMH (Aldershot for the foetus level amongst us) and QEMH Woolwich.

Both were 100% Army and scraped in all the difficult and expensive cases that the NHS did not want to work on as well as all the military patients.

So, okay, in the UK we lacked certain skills because the MOD would not pay for duplicating the NHS such as paediatrics but when it came to trauma, cancer (which often replicates trauma in surgery results + recovery patterns) and rehab/physio we wiped the floor with the local NHS hospitals.

We were the default option for a 50 mile radius for those who bit car windscreens, had cranial and maxfax cancer, major physio issues etc. as well as p[roviding a CLASS 1 military focused post operative care system.

What we have now is a return flight on a charter carrier and an invitation to join the queue at the local accountancy managed sticking plaster and bullshit dispenery....about five down the queue from those who are busy exerting their "human right" to have their teenage tattoos removed because the one on the left arm says KEVIN and the last babyfather they had was LEROY.
I like the cut of your jib, young man

Their are many reasons why the old mil hops system died.

CMH was planned to close in the 80's, as a new facility was planned further down Queens Ave. The recession and the Tories killed that one.

The vast amount of money that went into mil hospitals was mostly spent on the upkeep of very old buildings.

As a force, I dont think we need huge 500 bedded hospitals - a smaller teaching facility tacted on would be nice.

The Musgrave park option would keep the been counters happy

Small, all mil managment, 25-35 bedded units utilising local services - similar to building a private wing onto an NHS DGH. The specialists would come to use to review their mil patients.

We would see the return of the mil ethos to AMS - we are here to care for HM Forces not NHS, thats what we all joined to do.

At times in Fr***** P*** I personnaly felt as if I was letting the side down.
 
#14
Many postings on this in the past. I too did the rounds of UK Military Hospitals and those overseas and I always felt them all to be of good, if not excellent, quality, (both from a consumer and a provider perspective). I think that the problem here is that all of us inside the wire, who do not have half an eye on careers in the NHS/Private Sector, that is, middle ranking and some senior doctors, agree that Military Hospitals are top banana and should be re-established now. The general public don't care about them, we are a footnote in the news and as soon as the next death/injury is announced, they care for a millisecond then get back to mundane existence, or Neighbours or whatever. There is just no political imperative to get back to Military hospitals, wings reverse MDHUs, whatever.
 
#15
nurse_ratched said:
Many postings on this in the past. I too did the rounds of UK Military Hospitals and those overseas and I always felt them all to be of good, if not excellent, quality, (both from a consumer and a provider perspective). I think that the problem here is that all of us inside the wire, who do not have half an eye on careers in the NHS/Private Sector, that is, middle ranking and some senior doctors, agree that Military Hospitals are top banana and should be re-established now. The general public don't care about them, we are a footnote in the news and as soon as the next death/injury is announced, they care for a millisecond then get back to mundane existence, or Neighbours or whatever. There is just no political imperative to get back to Military hospitals, wings reverse MDHUs, whatever.
I think you'll find that their is now
 
#16
The only military medical people who never complain(ed) about the closure of service hospitals were the Doctors. Oddly enough, they were the only ones in the DMS with any hope of influencing government policy... Still, done wonders for medical (as in doctor) training and career prospects don'tca know...
 
#17
I quite agree!

But the nurses opened their eyes - suddenly from treating 18-40 year old with acute problems, we were treating 60-99 year olds with multiple chronic problems, which was brilliant for nursing experience...



... but not as a military cadre!!

we lost all direction, and the plot entirely.

NOW, the pendulum is swinging more towards the median and away from each extreme. Hopefully we will regain control of the run away train
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#18
Bedpan2zero said:
NOW, the pendulum is swinging more towards the median and away from each extreme. Hopefully we will regain control of the run away train
I am afraid the train has left the station, rumbling into the tunnel out of control and no one will ever catch it as the masters who collaberated with DCS15 have started to leave, or left and have no interest in the future of the AMS; only their nice fat pensions and half pay and and the odd MBE/ OBE.

Its too late, unless youre Grey Mafia or a MO then you should be ok.
 
#19
the grey mafia are doing their collective damndest

the MOs didnt care about the patients - we did - and still do
 
#20
I agree that the Tories were a bunch of c**ts also when it came to the defence bubget and DMS but this governemnt have been in charge since 1997 and they're just as sh*t so lets kick them out.

There is an argument that this would not be an issue if we were not fighting unpopular wars. A 'popoular conflict' (please excuse the term) such as the Falkands War would have NHS staff and patients pulling the stops out to help wounded British military personnel. A sailor, soldier or airman being treated like a hero by civvy nurses would be just the ticket. Who cares if the ward's dirty if the bed bath comes with extras!

Seriously, I am not a trick cyclist but the beneift of a service environment is to make the traumatised and injured patient not feel isolated. The complaints that have hit the headlines have been about verbal abuse from patients in civvy wards. The reports were that a non-caucasian family were verbally abusing one wounded soldier in Birminham whihs is scandolous but not the NHS' fault.

Q. What really is happening up in Birmingham to injured Soldiers being treated as in-patients on casevac from Op Tours?
 

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