Do we need a Defence Capabilities referendum?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by SkiCarver, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Yes, the people should be allowed to decide the place their country has in the world.

  2. No, we should allow our masters to decide as we are only citizens, not a labour party members.

  3. A good idea that will never happen.

  4. Ski, You really are a boring fcuker.


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  1. during their time in government, labour (and the tories before them) have made massive cuts to HM armed forces, particularly the Royal Navy. It would appear that in the future, the defence budget will be under even more pressure as tax revenues decrease due to the recession.

    Should the country have a referendum on what place the people / untermensch (translation for the benefit of labour party members) want their country to have in the world and how much resource the people are willing to put toward defence spending to achieve that place.

    What position should the UK have in the world? (words to the effect of)

    1. The UK should be a 'mini-US' with expeditionary warfare capbility and naval assests sufficent to ensure sea lane security (we are an island nation utterly dependant on imports) and the protection of overseas territories. This would ensure the retention of the permanent security council seat. - increase in defence spending required.

    2. The UK should remain self sufficient within the british isles, with a small combined defence force. giving up nuclear weapons (to avoid the situation where our only means of defence is nuclear first strike) and giving up the permanant security council seat. Naval forces maintained at their current minimal levels and overseas territories left to defend themselves. - allows reduction in defence spending, but the UK would be utterly dependant on other nations for securing vital imported resources.

    3. The UK should become part of the United States of Europe and a contributor to the EU armed forces. These forces will be under the command of brussels and all overseas territories will be left to fend for themselves. The UK would lose its permanant security council seat. Allows a reduction of defence spending to that of other european countries.

  2. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    I think the referendum that needs to happen first is

    Do we wish to retain a UK nuclear deterrent?

    and then decide what happens beyond that.
  3. Given that a significant portion of civvy street don't care / know what's going on outside of Corrie / Deadenders/ X-Celebrity-Dancing-Factor, I really don't think it would be a good idea to give the dozy buggers a direct vote on it.
  4. No, we need a referendum alright, but not on this issue.
  5. Most civilian opinion is grossly ill informed on the subject, so asking their opinion isn't going to help! However, a legal requirement for a full strategic defense review every 5 years (IE must be completed by every new govt after an election) and basing defense requirements and spending off that rather then the Treasury going 'How much do you want? You can have 70% of that' and cobbling together what forces we can from what money the MoD is allowed might help...Once defence requirements and needs are identified it should be illegal for the government not to fund them...and pigs might fly, and I'm going to go home and find a cheque for £10million in the post...
  6. My thoughts exactly. Just because someone can press a red button doesn't necessarily mean their opinion is worth a dead rat in a tampon factory!

    Remember who we'd be asking!

    Bad enough thats its this guy!
  7. It's interesting that I have implied that labour have nothing but contempt for the public, and considering the responses, it seems that people here agree with them! The government think they are better than the people of this country. We must not let ourselves think that way, unless we are to give up on democracy.

    I would think that a referendum would not only help to educate the public, but would also confirm that the people really do value their armed forces. This would force the ruling party to fund defence properly.
  8. or it could be hijacked by individuals that don't understand the issues involved but are better in the mass media then those who do? It would be a political thing, totally determined by the ideology & personal interest of those framing the debate in the media. In a democracy, everyones entitled to have an opinion but not for that opinion to be taken any more seriously then its virtues merit, I really don't think grand geo-political strategy is best determined by a public vote, 90% of whom would be utterly ignorant of any informed position on the subject. Labour may have contempt for the people of this country but then we were fcuking stupid enough to vote them in three times, and all those individuals who voted for Blair & Broon would be able to vote in this referendum...
  9. There are substantial numbers of people in this country who don't even bother to vote in general elections and others who vote purely from tradition without understanding the issues involved. Even amongst ourselves on Arrse we disagree about the direction that we believe the military should take, why should we think that the population at large would be able to detrermine the best way forwards when we can't agree ourselves?
  10. I'm more concerned at how long it will be before Brown follows the lead of Putin and Chavez and makes his Premiership permanent.
  11. Stand by for a European Defense Policy dictated by Brussels.

    Defense spending will no longer be decided by national governments - or even elected representitives. Probably not this decade, but quite possible within our lifetimes if things continue to go the wrong way.

    The next referendum should be about our status in the EU.
  12. I thought the last one was about that....... Oops Sorry :-(
  13. They'd probably follow the Irish example and keep repeating the referendum until the govt gets the answer it wanted in the first place.

    Referendums are blunt affairs and as has been said defence and foreign policy, which orbit each other, are far more complicated.
  14. I'm voting no, but not because Im implacably opposed to the idea. I simply don't think it's in the long term interests of the UK to allow our foreign and defence policies to be determined by a public which is largely uninformed about defence and foreign policy issues, and certainly is not privy to the information that would be needed to reach an informed conclusion.

    After all, the public voted in Labour 3 times. Do you really want them in charge of this?!
  15. problem is that most peoples views of the army ect are based on movies.
    so the british army will be cut down to "the SAS" and maybe the paras becuase their the only ones worth keeping :roll: