Do we have Flamethrowers in our inventory?

#61
Mine was before PPT thankfully, in fact before the army discovered word processors.
The original defensive one indeed was based on an oil drum with a ply disc separating the lifting charge from the fuel mix and 83 grenade.
I would love to have seen one fired from the defenders point of view!
... I think you mean an 80 Grenade? Coloured smoke would possibly have added to the aesthetic effect, but probably not much to the pyrophoric..?

This method was also used for building nuclear blast simulators until MoD was persuaded that buying an German made pyrotechnic was marginally safer.. The Oil Drum simulator was spectacular but incredibly messy and non umweldtfreundlich. Apart from anything else, retrieving a misfired bundle of PE from the bottom of a used sump oil/dieso/petrol mix was never going to be a happy experience...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#62
... I think you mean an 80 Grenade? Coloured smoke would possibly have added to the aesthetic effect, but probably not much to the pyrophoric..?
Indeed age is fudging the numbers
This method was also used for building nuclear blast simulators until MoD was persuaded that buying an German made pyrotechnic was marginally safer.. The Oil Drum simulator was spectacular but incredibly messy and non umweldtfreundlich. Apart from anything else, retrieving a misfired bundle of PE from the bottom of a used sump oil/dieso/petrol mix was never going to be a happy experience...
Surely more bang and fuel would be added to ensure it went off?
 
#63
Surely more bang and fuel would be added to ensure it went off?
I see you are an adherent of the Wedge school of explosive safety...?
 
#65
I recall an interview in 1991 with a US armourer (I assume*) Harriers** were being loaded with 'an incendiary device" to ignite oil filled trenches /tank traps

It sticks in the mind as he was going to great lengths to avoid saying Napalm and only reluctantly conceded it was when asked directly is it Napalm


*As I recall he was arming the aircraft - but it could have been an officer with the armourer in the back ground - its pushing 30 yrs ago details get fuzzy.

**Erm Harrier - I suppose he was probably a Marine Technician rather than airman

They hit the area near a bridge south of Baghdad and incinerated loads of civilians with not napalm napalm
 
#66
Taught at CETC and RSME.
..it figures!

The times I have spent clearing up after that lot.... I don't know!
 
#67
Didn't those playful little scamps in south armagh use one against one of the towers once?
At school I remember a visit from the Army recruiters who they told us what the scamps put in their Molotovs. As well as petrol, sump oil (for smoke), Fairy Liquid (makes it stick), and sugar (makes it burn at a higher temperature when it sticks).

Something Diane Abbot would be familiar with from her days as QM during the Broadwater Farm riots.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#68
..it figures!

The times I have spent clearing up after that lot.... I don't know!
Without us life would be boring!
Besides we usually blew everything up eventually!
 
#70
As a young apprentice, living in a neighbouring borough, I helped build that cess pit of vice and infamy, back in the late 60's and early 70's, we all knew then we were building trouble, the whole place was pre formed, like a meccano set, windows and doors set in concrete slabs, electric, gas and water pipes cast into the floor and wall slabs in the factory, all we had to do was connect up after the slabs and wall modules were set into place and bolted together, the public walkways were over the flats underneath, and under the flats above, and so forth up to the top of the block, totally enclosed, and wide enough to drive down,. all the garages were set into the ground floor footprint, and the whole mess, connected by aerial walkways, a nightmare for the emergency services, especially plod, as the scum would run from one block to another and get lost in the labyrinth of corridors and stair wells. I understand that improvements have been made over the intervening years, and the estate still exists, END.
 
#71
Argies never decanted it from the drums to the drop canisters though (and it is still legal for Military targets)
No apparently they did, but only for burning their own bodies or summat.....I am sure there is a thread about it on here somewhere that is full of evidence that they did.
 

chippymick

On ROPS
On ROPs
#72
IIRC from my research some 15 years ago into the Malaya Emergency, flamethrowers were used to clear foliage at the side of the narrow roads to reduce the ambush risk (most TICs were at less than 5 yard range); similarly there's a worrying-looking file in the National Archives marked "Chemical Warfare" that referred to the use of airborne-delivered defoliants used for a similar effect. About 15 years before Agent Orange. Just saying...
Crash - your 15 year old memory is not bad.

Defoliation as a method to reduce ambush risk in Malaya was sort of effective but horrendously expensive.

At first, the worst locations were cut by hand by locals as a "make work" project. Basic Keynsian pump priming. It did have the advantage of taking the Coolie labour engaged in the project out of the 'rice economy' and introduce them to the 'cash economy'. This was beneficial in terms of Malay national development but absolutely smashed the exchequer.

Flame throwers were trialed as cost reduction measure.

There are only two bad things about Public Transport - The Public and the transport. Equally there's only two bad things about rainforest. The rain and the forest. Too wet didn't burn at all well.

The Agent Orange defoliant was a combination of compounds 245T and 24D Developed in WW2 it was a joint UK/US scientific effort. At first the new defoliant was considered a food denial weapon. In 1945 it was planned to spray the Japanese rice crop with it as part of Operation Olympic. The intention was to create the sort of famine conditions in Japan that were extant in Indochina and India (East Bengal) at that time.

The Indochina famine claimed 1 -2 Million victims
The Bengal famine 2 - 3 Million victims

In some respects the Japanese got off lightly when only 1/4 of a million people were killed by the other wunderwaffe the UK and US had jointly developed. Atomic weapons.

In Malaya, after the application of Coolie labour with scythes had proved too expensive and flame throwers didn't work, the WW2 stocks intended for Japan were rediscovered and used. The first military use of Agent Orange was in Malaya by the Brits. First with coolie labour using back pack sprayers and later from helicopters for the hard to reach places.

I'm running completely from memory here. One of the BRIAM members in Vietnam in the 61-62 period was a chap called Irons. (I'm pretty sure it was Irons) Sir Robert Thompson's memoirs record him as a "Railway expert".

He was actually a defoliant expert that passed onto the US the UK experience of chemical defoliants usage in Malayan jungle.

The US military enthusiastically embraced this UK concept. At first Operation Ranch hand was a crop denial operation similar to the one originally planned for Japan. When first conceived in 1962 it was considered a useful method to force Vietnamese Peasants into Strategic Hamlets

The UK application of Agent Orange in Malaya could perhaps be considered an 'artisan' usage.

The UK delivered to the US a creative spark. They then took the concept to 'Big Box Store' levels. It's what they do. Big.

The Twentieth Century eh? You could be shot, gassed, nuked and burnt with impunity. Why not weaponize famine?

Who said upthread "How do like your dog shit?" - Apt.
 
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#74
No apparently they did, but only for burning their own bodies or summat.....I am sure there is a thread about it on here somewhere that is full of evidence that they did.
Here it is:
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/did-argentina-drop-napalm-on-there-own-dead.264031/

Elsewhere.

1553602379623.png

Goose Green Battle - Falklands War 1982

There was anecdotal evidence to suggest dropping of napalm on paras that thankfully failed to ignite, although I though I read an account of one going off. The stocks of napalm bombs that were found were contaminated by salt water apparently.
 
#77
#78
Flamethrowers have been banned for some time and I think Phospherous grenades and mortar shells have also been banned since my time, so no more "Dolly mix, rate 8, expend"
 
#79
IIRC from my research some 15 years ago into the Malaya Emergency, flamethrowers were used to clear foliage at the side of the narrow roads to reduce the ambush risk (most TICs were at less than 5 yard range); similarly there's a worrying-looking file in the National Archives marked "Chemical Warfare" that referred to the use of airborne-delivered defoliants used for a similar effect. About 15 years before Agent Orange. Just saying...
My Dad was a groundsman and a after we moved to London in mid 70s he was looking round the storage shed and found some containers he didn't recognise so left alone. A few years later there was a documentary about the use of agent orange in Vietnam. This prompted him to go and have a look at the stash of stuff left by the previous groundsman. Took the various numbers and codes and names of ingredients and had a bit of an oh crap moment. Exactly the same ingredients........don't know about strength.

He made calls to who ever would be responsible for normal disposal of industrial chemicals and was f'd off and told to contact some government agency or other and the "men from the ministry" came and took the 20 liter drums away, one of which had had a lot of the contents used.

Not available to the general public on the high street stuff but obviously commercially available to "the trade" at some point and the previous groundsman had been spraying it around a sports ground In London in the 70s which was a bit of a surprise.
 
#80
Do any of the rules with flamethrowers apply to thermobaric munitions? I believe they cause damage by both blast and heat from the ignited fuel.
 

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