Do U.S. armed forces have the best guns money can buy?

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091012/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_afghanistan_weapons_failures

In the chaos of an early morning assault on a remote U.S. outpost in eastern Afghanistan, Staff Sgt. Erich Phillips' M4 carbine quit firing as militant forces surrounded the base. The machine gun he grabbed after tossing the rifle aside didn't work either.

When the battle in the small village of Wanat ended, nine U.S. soldiers lay dead and 27 more were wounded. A detailed study of the attack by a military historian found that weapons failed repeatedly at a "critical moment" during the firefight on July 13, 2008, putting the outnumbered American troops at risk of being overrun by nearly 200 insurgents.

Which raises the question: Eight years into the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, do U.S. armed forces have the best guns money can buy?
 
#2
im too tired to have a long drawn out argument but just to be a dick il point out that the afore mentioned m4 is a rifle not a gun as suggested by the thread title :wink:
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Do you reckon they kept them as clean as our lot do?
 
#5
In the article most of the problems seemed to be from overheating, and during such a long fight with thousands of rounds being fired of course there are going to be problems.
 
#6
lostnconfused said:
im too tired to have a long drawn out argument but just to be a dick il point out that the afore mentioned m4 is a rifle not a gun as suggested by the thread title :wink:
Must have been a Freudian slip.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun..etc." :lol:

By the way, Russian makers of AK (the famous Kalashnikov) Izhmash might be going bankrupt.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20091003.aspx

The Curse Of The AK-47

October 3, 2009: The Russian firm Izhmash (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) holds the patents for the AK-47, and it is going broke because of all the illegal copies of its weapons being produced worldwide. Izhmash is having little success in trying to force companies in Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Israel, China and the United States to pay licensing fees for the AK-47s they produce.
 
#7
Now that our SA80 Mk 2's are being sorted out by H&K, maybe we have the better weapons?!!! ;)
 
#8
I don't think the standard issue weapons in any army are likely to be described as "the best that money can buy."
 
#9
Not even after ours have been "Cosworthed" by H&K?! lol!

Always made by the lowest bidder, and even then have to be shipped off abroad rather than fixed in our own factories!
 
#10
Sid_Ruff said:
Not even after ours have been "Cosworthed" by H&K?! lol!

Always made by the lowest bidder, and even then have to be shipped off abroad rather than fixed in our own factories!
Our L85/86 are not really "the best that money can buy" even if they've had a fcking fortune spent on them and now work.

That said, I would venture that in its class the GPMG is "the best money can buy"...
 
#11
I heard a few years ago that the yanks were to get "The Rifle 556" "to work alongside coalition forces better". Since they still dont use it and have stuck to the incredibly sh1te M16 I was right in assuming it was all balls. It should've been a giveaway that an american told me this...... bullsh1tter!
 
#12
In the main most armies are equipped with the most 'politically' acceptable and cheapest!Is it any wonder they fail?It would seem it is only good drills and discipline that make the difference.I am always amazed at the British Army's ability to make do anyway and still complete the mission.
 
#13
I always thought the Russians got it right, find a good design and slowly improve it.
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#14
homer4president said:
I heard a few years ago that the yanks were to get "The Rifle 556" "to work alongside coalition forces better". Since they still dont use it and have stuck to the incredibly sh1te M16 I was right in assuming it was all balls. It should've been a giveaway that an american told me this...... bullsh1tter!
ISTR (and JJH/others may well correct me) that there was a lot of pork barrel skulduggery about the trials for the yanks main infantry weapon a year or so ago; i.e. the trials were organised in a skewed way to allow continued production of M16/M4. One of the critisicms is that field conditions were factored out of the trails..
 
#15
-Sardaukar- said:
lostnconfused said:
im too tired to have a long drawn out argument but just to be a dick il point out that the afore mentioned m4 is a rifle not a gun as suggested by the thread title :wink:
Must have been a Freudian slip.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun..etc." :lol:

By the way, Russian makers of AK (the famous Kalashnikov) Izhmash might be going bankrupt.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20091003.aspx

The Curse Of The AK-47

October 3, 2009: The Russian firm Izhmash (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) holds the patents for the AK-47, and it is going broke because of all the illegal copies of its weapons being produced worldwide. Izhmash is having little success in trying to force companies in Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Israel, China and the United States to pay licensing fees for the AK-47s they produce.
how the feck has that transpired, i thought there was a ak for every 4th person in the world currently in circulation
 

Schaden

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
#16
oddly enough when I was off playing soldiers many moons ago before the riderpest epidemic and when dinosaurs roamed the earth I got one of the most expensive bits of kit going to play with - Galil at about $1,500 a pop vs the yanks $499 M4's.

And yes it would be my choice today as well.
 
#17
lostnconfused said:
-Sardaukar- said:
lostnconfused said:
im too tired to have a long drawn out argument but just to be a dick il point out that the afore mentioned m4 is a rifle not a gun as suggested by the thread title :wink:
Must have been a Freudian slip.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun..etc." :lol:

By the way, Russian makers of AK (the famous Kalashnikov) Izhmash might be going bankrupt.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20091003.aspx

The Curse Of The AK-47

October 3, 2009: The Russian firm Izhmash (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) holds the patents for the AK-47, and it is going broke because of all the illegal copies of its weapons being produced worldwide. Izhmash is having little success in trying to force companies in Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Israel, China and the United States to pay licensing fees for the AK-47s they produce.
how the feck has that transpired, i thought there was a ak for every 4th person in the world currently in circulation
A lot of companies allow goods to be made under licence, such as the Apache chopper is made by Westland under licence. The problem here is that the countries that are churning theses AKs out haven't paid their dues to Izmash and therefore they are not making the money despite holding the patent therefore they go tits up.
 
#18
I think you can still view the video on Utube of the Galil firing 20 rounds that have been loaded into the mag with alternate layers of toothpaste and sand and not missing a shot.
 
#19
Simple answer to the question posed in the title to this thread is no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine#2007_dust_test

However in all fairness few weapons would have performed flawlessly under the pressures posed by the 2008 battle of Wanat. The problem with the M4 and to a lesser extent the M16 is direct gas impingement. There is too much fouling in the system and it overheats. That is why systems such as the FN SCAR and HK416 use a gas piston. Most of us here will be familiar with the technical issues concerned. Best infantry weapon? I don't know really but the yanks will always be stuck with whatever Colt produces.
 
#20
re-stilly said:
lostnconfused said:
-Sardaukar- said:
lostnconfused said:
im too tired to have a long drawn out argument but just to be a dick il point out that the afore mentioned m4 is a rifle not a gun as suggested by the thread title :wink:
Must have been a Freudian slip.

"This is my rifle, this is my gun..etc." :lol:

By the way, Russian makers of AK (the famous Kalashnikov) Izhmash might be going bankrupt.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/20091003.aspx

The Curse Of The AK-47

October 3, 2009: The Russian firm Izhmash (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) holds the patents for the AK-47, and it is going broke because of all the illegal copies of its weapons being produced worldwide. Izhmash is having little success in trying to force companies in Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Israel, China and the United States to pay licensing fees for the AK-47s they produce.
how the feck has that transpired, i thought there was a ak for every 4th person in the world currently in circulation
A lot of companies allow goods to be made under licence, such as the Apache chopper is made by Westland under licence. The problem here is that the countries that are churning theses AKs out haven't paid their dues to Izmash and therefore they are not making the money despite holding the patent therefore they go tits up.
nice, counterfeit weapons lol
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top