Do Troops going through TSC(A)/TSC(INf) get enough support from their parent unit?

Discussion in 'Join the Army - Reserve Recruitment' started by Mad_hippy, Mar 8, 2012.

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  1. Yes

  2. Not really

  3. Sometimes

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  1. Do Troops going through TSC(A)/TSC(INf) get enough support from their parent unit?

    I work with the RTC in Aldershot, and I am getting a lot of feedback from the lads that they dont get the support from the parent unit, in the sense of revision and supporting training for the course. Just wondered what the opinion of the forum is?

    Many thanks

  2. Shirly it is dependent on the number of available qualified instructors in the parent unit.

    A small unit with a cadre of NCOs devoid of instructional quals means no support.

    What does your RTC do to support these types of unit?
  3. Not enough at the moment, but if I can come up with a business case, we might be able to do more than just the basics. Hence the survey. Also doing a survey through other means to and will collate the information before presenting to the chain of command.
  4. Looking after recruits is demanding as you miss your own training. Plus SAA, CBRN, MAPRIC and PTI courses are all big courses. BCDI is 2 week ends so not so bad.

    Now, assistant CBRN is 2 week ends, and can teach. Much of the work at RTC is SAA. So, how about doing a SAA assistant to train recruits up to WHT standard? It used to be glued on the Cmcq course. Two w ends and you've got a gem of a qual.

    Just a thought.
  5. Good idea, will add that to the recommendations.
  6. From i understand lads arnt aloud any form of training/teaching from thier parent unit. This comes from RTC saying we teach recruits incorrectly.....
  7. Dogfondler jr. has recently completed TSC (A) and had no help whatsoever from his unit with regard to TSC (B). Indeed, at RTC the prevailing ethos was, "Don't worry, you'll do that at Pirbright/Grantham/wherever."
  8. That is an issue, some units just say we cant teach them, others say you'll do it later in training. Then other units, use the same instructors that visit the RTCs to train and provide additioanl training to the recruits at different stages. SO we see a real mixture depending on the level of support provided. Hence the question.
  9. walkyrie

    walkyrie Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    We're told that we are not to teach Recruits, aside from a vetted billy basics syllabus (think badges of rank and ironing).

    My limited (OR) knowledge is that its the RTC's that have fed back that we shouldn't be training recruits. So our stock response has to be "you'll learn it on TSC(A)/(B)."

    Equally, the teaching style and syllabus seems to change so often that all the trained soldiers in our unit are out of date, so if we do teach them it only confuses the matter.

    Is it possible for the RTCs to issue a formal "what to do with recruits and how to do it" ? Or do they already do that and CoC has neglected to mention it?
  10. Simple answer is the following.

    Units can not teach beyond the recruit syllabus, this prior to TSC(A) is the very basics.

    During TSC(A) they are to provide any remedial training highlighted by the SUTs / Recruits book filled in by the RTC.

    TSC (Inf) again is another night mare, think 4/5 weekends of training squashed into 3 and you'll get the idea

    In reality very little is done as varying levels of Recruits are in on a Tuesday, anyone providing training should be CRB'd, DTTT and obviously qual'd.

    There are many issues, by all means I can offer advise from the coal face if you wish, unfortunately the training model is flawed and not suitable for the TA, but everyone involved knows this
  11. walkyrie

    walkyrie Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    I hate to start the whinge train, but this just does not work. Prime example happened not so long ago.

    Recruit walks in on a Tuesday after a weekend:
    "My RTC book says I need to do more weapon handling before the next weekend."
    But the Skilly isn't in. Ok, we'll do a bit of buckshee weapon-cleaning-with-extras.
    Oh wait. The SQMS isn't in so we can't open the armoury anyway....

    Anyway, you've summed it up perfectly here so I'll get back in my box....
  12. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    The Skilly? Really? At my platoon location alone there are four of us, so even with one on tour, there is always someone who can instruct SAA lessons/practices. There must be more than one SAAI at your unit, surely? I do realise that non-Infantry units have issues in this regard, but there is always a PSI if no one else. I think this goes to the heart of much of the problem. Recruits return for their next weekend never having practiced what they were taught on the Rifle and need constant revision on previously taught drills. We don't even hold weapons at our location, but will have previously arranged to have some transported down for at least one of the nights in between Training Weekends.

    Having guest instructed there, I know how much time is spent on remedial sessions with struggling students who clearly have not touched a weapon since their last Trg Wknd, when in fact they are the kind of people who need more practice than most. Weapon handling and physical fitness are the two areas where a lack of practice between the weekends seems most evident. Phys is of course something which the recruits can (and should) be doing in their own time, with PT sessions at unit really just confirming that they are up to the standard that they have been trained to at RTC. SAA however, does require resource support which means that leaving it to an last minute lesson rather than having it scheduled as an integral part of your unit recruit training package, is probably where it's falling down.

    I think a more pertinent question involving RTC than the one posed by the OP, is whether RTC is training recruits to the right level to start CIC. I pose this in the light of the shockingly low percentage of recruits who got a straight pass in a recent CIC cadre. Speaking to two of the lads who did pass it, they both felt that they had been physically unprepared for the level of robustness required there. The 8 mile tab at the end of the four-day Ex seems to have been the biggest drama. Both Rfn said that there was marked gap in the fitness level at the end of RTC and that at CIC. The easy answer here would be to bridge that gap by training at unit, but this would mean training beyond what they have been taught at RTC. Moreover, is this not RTC's job to train them up to the correct level?
  13. Fitness is personally a big one, the amount of guys that I recycle through our system because they can't even pass a 4mile loaded march is shocking on average the fail rate is around 30% per weekend during TAC(Inf) who are supposed to have passed a 3mile one as a pass out of TSC(A).

    Ranges, not enough time, based on AOSP we need a minimum of 2 weekends to complete all the required range practices.

    And NBC really, surely this can be a phase 3 or done at unit level and allow more time for other things.

    Don't even mention that Corps get extra training time in their syllabus compared to Inf
  14. The problem is the lack of instructors at unit level.

    Who says the PSI has instructor quals? I've not had a SAA PSI at this Sqn (2002).

    I remember the bad old days of in house training week ends. Standards were much lower before the RTCs. I think the model works.

    As I have said, the bulk of the time is spent on SAA. A short course (2 w ends) to enable instruction to recruits up to WHT SA80 would take much of the pressure off the SAAIs.

    The 'Endurance Leader' course (correct me if I'm wrong) is a 2 w end take a PFT job. That's what we need for all MATTs, (basic footdrill even???), SAA too, a large cadre of assistants who can conduct up to date low level instruction at sub unit level on training nights.
  15. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Really? What capbadge are you out of interest? I know that non-Infantry don't do this as a matter of course as part of their Cpl promotion, but thought this was a requisite course for an Instructor posting. Still, if this is the situation then surely it is incumbent on your sub-unit to prioritise getting its NCOs on a SAA course.

    Yes I agree, standards have been raised and made uniform and consistent. A big step forward, but as I said in my post above, I think the training level still falls short of adequately preparing recruits for CIC.

    Being able to instruct up to WHT is what the SAA course does (plus coaching etc.). How about actually sending a one or two guys on the actual course every year, instead of instituting a whole new course and qualification?

    The ETL qual enables you to take a squadded run or tab on a route that has been risk-assessed by a PTI. You can't sign off PFTs or CFTs. Instead of a large cadre of SAA assistants, how about a core of actual instructors?