Do Mi6 instigate insurgency in Chechnya?

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090924/wl_nm/us_russia_chechnya_cia

The Kremlin-backed chief of Russia's turbulent Chechnya region said his forces were fighting U.S. and British intelligence services who want to split the country apart, according to an interview published Thursday.

Former rebel-turned-Moscow-ally Ramzan Kadyrov said in comments to Zavtra newspaper reprinted on his official website that he had seen the U.S. driving license of a CIA operative who was killed in a security operation he led.

Chechen authorities have previously said insurgents following the radical Wahabist form of Islam receive support from international Islamist groups sympathetic to al-Qaeda, but have not accused the West of instigating violence.

"We're fighting in the mountains with the American and English intelligence agencies. They are fighting not against Kadyrov, not against traditional Islam, they are fighting against the sovereign Russian state," he said.
Interesting rumours.

Asked if he was saying there were signs of CIA and MI6 participation in the violence, he said "Of course," he had seen evidence of their direct involvement in an operation he led.

"There was a terrorist Chitigov, he worked for the CIA. He had U.S. citizenship...When we killed him, I was in charge of the operation and we found a U.S. driving license and all the other documents were also American," he said.
It is possible that some Britons of Arab or/and Muslim descent could join the insurgents in Chechnya. Could some of them be MI6 informers? I don't exclude it. But does it mean that British government tries to instigate onsurgency in Chechnya? Highly unlikely.
 
#4
Taita said:
If they were operating in the country they are hardly likely to take along a full set of USA documents surely!
There are good reasons to have American documents. The border is quite near. In Georgia American documents would be very usefull.
 
#5
I was working in St Petersburg from 1998 - 2005 & I remember seeing on the main Russian TV channel a report during the 2nd Chechen War, i.e. well before 9/11, from one of their correspondents who had been looking into British Muslim support for the 'insurgents'. The reporter & cameraman were invited by the Imam to sit in on a meeting at the London Central Mosque, Regent's Park about the ongoing conflict in Chechnya. At the end of the meeting, a collection box was passed around for contributions to support the Muslim insurgents & a number of feisty yoofs leaving the meeting, on learning that the TV crew were Russian, started jostling them, roughed up the cameraman & damaged his camera. Some of them also said that they had recently returned from fighting in Chechnya. The Russian Ambassador in London protested about the incident to the FCO but got the typical brush off, 'No, no, can't be true, our Muslims are good boys' etc.

So, I am sure that there are still UK passport holders fighting & dying in Chechnya (in the same way that they were fighting with the Muslims in the Former Yugoslavia & are now active in Afghanistan), but they are not 'English' & they are hardly instigated or run by MI6.
 
#6
I doubt that a genuine CIA operative would have his driving licence with him, but at the same time we have a history of formenting unrest in that part of the world.

Tin hat on standby, but the Russians killed a British citizen in London in the most agonising way imaginable. There must be stuff going on the nature of which we can't conceive.
 
#7
Surely any western instigation via Chechnya would only pushes the Russians towards aiding the Taliban or other anti-western extremists.

It's in Britain's interests for Russia to remain a complete sovereign entity. Russia falling apart and rival factions dividing mother Russia's considerable nuclear stockpile would not be good.
 
#8
Mr_Deputy said:
BigD said:
I was working in St Petersburg from 1998 - 2005 & I remember seeing on the main Russian TV channel a report during the 2nd Chechen War, i.e. well before 9/11, from one of their correspondents who had been looking into British Muslim support for the 'insurgents'. The reporter & cameraman were invited by the Imam to sit in on a meeting at the London Central Mosque, Regent's Park about the ongoing conflict in Chechnya. At the end of the meeting, a collection box was passed around for contributions to support the Muslim insurgents & a number of feisty yoofs leaving the meeting, on learning that the TV crew were Russian, started jostling them, roughed up the cameraman & damaged his camera. Some of them also said that they had recently returned from fighting in Chechnya. The Russian Ambassador in London protested about the incident to the FCO but got the typical brush off, 'No, no, can't be true, our Muslims are good boys' etc.

So, I am sure that there are still UK passport holders fighting & dying in Chechnya (in the same way that they were fighting with the Muslims in the Former Yugoslavia & are now active in Afghanistan), but they are not 'English' & they are hardly instigated or run by MI6.
Good post.

(Incidently I had to go and work at the Central Mosque the day after 9/11 I was working for City of Westminster authority, Baker St office at the time. Was v weird going there on that day! Nothing much happened though. alot of Police around but not early in morning when I arrived!)
Yes, it's a good post.

Ian Traynor in Guardian wrote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/mar/28/worlddispatch.russia

The Chechen Islamists, led by a British-born SAS veteran and mercenary recruited in Islamabad, sported green headbands with white Arabic script.
 
#10
Bravo_Bravo said:
Can I have a pint of whatever Sergei is drinking?
Just now I'm drinking tea. Riston, English elite tea exactly. Fine.

For me it is absolutely clear that MI5, MI6, British governmet don't help, incourage or instigate activity of Chechen rebels in any way.

But why some in Russia express such silly ideas, why Russian films (described by Ian Trainor) depict the British this way? I don't understand it.

Anyway, I would like to express my deepest apologies for apparently baseless accusations made by some (undereducated) Russian politicians.

I'm ashamed.
 
#11
Sergei

Kadyrov is a loon. He's just looking for a chance to jump into Daghestan and Ingushetia. I know, lets look at those arch-Colonialists: The British! They're to blame, Comrade Putin! Believe me, the chaps and the chapesses from the FCO are not as good as the Kremlin have built them up to be. In fact, they're next to fukcing useless!
 
#12
KGB_resident said:
Bravo_Bravo said:
Can I have a pint of whatever Sergei is drinking?
Just now I'm drinking tea. Riston, English elite tea exactly. Fine.
Never heard of it.

Tea Riston became for Englishmen the standard of quality and the sample of classical English tea traditions. If you arrive to England and order tea, to you by all means offer on a choice some kinds of tea. Choose Riston and on the admired rise of eyebrows of the owner you understand, that your choice is appreciated.

Riston has made Englishmen tea lovers. Company Riston have the lion’s share of a merit that Englishmen became one of the most tea -consumers nation in the world. Taste of Riston has interrupted general liking for coffee forever. Now the cult of tea dominates at each English family, and till now tea drinking makes one of the most characteristic national traditions of Englishmen.
http://www.antares-ua.com/en/brands/riston/history/

Did you write the above? :wink:

I think most 'Western' volunteers for the Chechen cause are Turks, of whom there are far less in the UK than in Germany etc., and who have a degree of cultural attachment to the region (including a large Circassian diaspora in Turkey). Certainly, the main Chechen propaganda website is hosted in Turkey. 'Our' Muslims are far more likely to go off to Pakistan...
 
#13
KGB_resident said:
Taita said:
If they were operating in the country they are hardly likely to take along a full set of USA documents surely!
There are good reasons to have American documents. The border is quite near. In Georgia American documents would be very usefull.
Is it the same set of US documents that were claimed found in South Ossetia belonging to a black US Marine fighting the 58th Army? The ones that have never been heard of again, perhaps?

The Kremlin trusting what Kadyrov says is akin to Washington believeing everything comeing out of Tel Aviv.
 
#16
Rumpelstiltskin said:
KGB_resident said:
Bravo_Bravo said:
Can I have a pint of whatever Sergei is drinking?
Just now I'm drinking tea. Riston, English elite tea exactly. Fine.
Never heard of it.

Tea Riston became for Englishmen the standard of quality and the sample of classical English tea traditions. If you arrive to England and order tea, to you by all means offer on a choice some kinds of tea. Choose Riston and on the admired rise of eyebrows of the owner you understand, that your choice is appreciated.

Riston has made Englishmen tea lovers. Company Riston have the lion’s share of a merit that Englishmen became one of the most tea -consumers nation in the world. Taste of Riston has interrupted general liking for coffee forever. Now the cult of tea dominates at each English family, and till now tea drinking makes one of the most characteristic national traditions of Englishmen.
http://www.antares-ua.com/en/brands/riston/history/

Did you write the above? :wink:
First time I ever came across Riston was in Eastern Europe.

Superior quality. Hmmmm! The marketing seems to lose a little bite when the English Breakfast tea comes served with no milk and made with luke warm water from the coffee machine.
 
#17
I thought this was something that MI6 do all the time, just to keep the Russians busy. Haven't you heard it's a huge conspiracy against Putin?
 
#18
whitecity said:
The Kremlin trusting what Kadyrov says is akin to Washington believeing everything comeing out of Tel Aviv.
What? You are clearly drunk. Ziveli!
 
#19
harareboy99 said:
Surely any western instigation via Chechnya would only pushes the Russians towards aiding the Taliban or other anti-western extremists.
What on earth makes you think the Russians would have any more interest in supporting radical Islam now than we do? The Cold War's over and chickens are roosting the world over

harareboy99 said:
It's in Britain's interests for Russia to remain a complete sovereign entity. Russia falling apart and rival factions dividing mother Russia's considerable nuclear stockpile would not be good.
You're about 20 years too late, that was exactly the intent regarding the USSR that got us into this mess.
 
#20
Rumpelstiltskin, I don't think that there is a large Turkish insurgency element in Chechnya, Turkey is more a safe haven for Chechen rebels. The conflicts of the 90s, starting with Bosnia & then Chechnya, were the places that the young British Muslims earned their spurs before jumping onto Afghanistan as the new hot war - for them Chechnya is just so yesterday, darling.

Having a crawl around the web, I came across a couple of articles about earlier British Muslim support for Chechnya, when it was more of a hot war & it is this British involvement that still gets dredged up by the Russian political Establishment when they look to elide it together with our providing asylum in London to Chechen 'freedom fighters' & 'persecuted' oligarchs, supporting Georgia (including Frau Kinnock recently flying out to Tblisi on her first official trip as Minister for NATO expansion, sorry 'Europe' - and when is someone finally going to tell Georgia that it is not actually part of Europe & certainly has no hope of joining the EU) & Ukraine, refocusing the British Council under Neil Kinnock on lecturing the Russians on (their) racism & (lack of) multi-culturalism despite their having a federal structure & 160+ ethnic groups speaking 100+ languages & 4 state recognised religions, including Islam, Judaism & Buddhism, as well as Orthodoxy etc.

I particularly appreciated the fact that the British Muslim convert on his return to the UK was able to claim & live on invalidity benefit after having been injured by a mortar attack in Bosnia :?
 

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