Do In Service Degrees exist????

#1
During my interviews to attend RCB and RMAS I was assured that one of the great advantages of the Army was that whilst in it I could go full time to university. Now 4 years in, as an Infantry Officer I have found this to be a myth. There are lots of people, who met a guy who they think was Infantry who did a degree, but no real evidence. I have asked three AECs, MCM Div and various other people in my chain of command, none have even heard of In Service degrees!!!!! The frustating part is my chain of command and Desk Officer are keen to let me apply/attend to further myself, but not a single DCI or AGAI can be found. I am very set on gaining a degree via full time study but ideally dont want to leave the Army to do it. Any suggestions????
 
#2
I sincerely hope they do exist, or I'm in big trouble with my Unit when I get back!

I found out via a letter from my Desk Officer that went out Corps wide about the DTUS scheme.

Admittedly, I didn't get to see it straight away, it was 'found' after much harrasing of the Adjt, who recovered it from an old filing cabinet, in the basement, in an annex to RHQ, under a stack of crap etc......

The procedure goes something like - apply via your Desk Officer before Jun (?) with your COs approval, sit a Corps level board, go to an Army Board at Glasgow, the results are out in Nov for the following Sept. It will help your case enormously if you already have an unconditional offer from one of the DTUS Universities. (Southampton, Newcastle, Loughborough, I forget the other one).

I have a sneaky suspicion that Infantry capbages are not eligible as all the people I saw that had been accepted this year were either REME, RLC, RE or R Signals. Your Desk Officer or RCMO should be able to find out for sure.

Good luck - it's an awesome 3 years, even if you do forego 3 OJARs!
 
#4
I know of a Dukes Offr who did an ISD at RMCS in 99 but the rules may have changes? All you can do is get your COs approval and then the decision is made by MS in Glasgow with MCM Divs input. Good luck I can fully recommend the 3 years!

Crazy
 
#5
TheCheerfulSubbie said:
the DTUS Universities. (Southampton, Newcastle, Loughborough, I forget the other one).

I have a sneaky suspicion that Infantry capbages are not eligible as all the people I saw that had been accepted this year were either REME, RLC, RE or R Signals.
Top advice and all correct.

10 Places army wide per year on the DTUS scheme.

The other uni is Aston.
No chance of getting on it if you're not in a technical corps.

Historically other arms 7 services were permitted to RMCS in years gone by, but RMCS no more.

You could always transfer to the RLC - not as daft as it sounds, there's currently 3 x Lts and 2 x Snr Capts (Inf & not RIR) going through the process
 
#6
MMMh, doesn't sound good, funny that Infantry Officers aren't allowed to get degrees but being a non grad affects our promotion and pay just as much! Looks like I'll have to do the distance learning thing, or maybe do the MPhil at Cambridge, as the info I have on that says you dont need to be a grad.
 
#7
Heart_of_Darkness said:
Now 4 years in, as an Infantry Officer I have found this to be a myth.
Sold a myth? What a shock! :lol:

Soldiers have always been told "you'll see the world and learn a trade". What a load of bo11ocks. Only some people ever learn a useable trade - it took me a wee while to realise that putting Mortar No2 man on my CV wasn't going to get me too many jobs. Fortunately I became a remf and I'm now looking forward to leaving after 22 years and (same thing we do every night Pinky) taking over the world with my various wierd quals in whatever I do.

Might I suggest that you look into the Modular Masters Programme at Cranfield University.
 
#8
Heart_of_Darkness said:
MMMh, doesn't sound good, funny that Infantry Officers aren't allowed to get degrees but being a non grad affects our promotion and pay just as much! Looks like I'll have to do the distance learning thing, or maybe do the MPhil at Cambridge, as the info I have on that says you dont need to be a grad.
Don't lose too much sleep over it.... do you really wan't to do a BSc in Logistic Management.... i forgot to mention, the ISDs are vocationally orientated!
 
#9
goon_bde said:
Don't lose too much sleep over it.... do you really wan't to do a BSc in Logistic Management.... i forgot to mention, the ISDs are vocationally orientated!
Yes! I am placing supply chain specialists with 5 years experience into consultancy jobs at 700 pounds per day plus expenses for an 18-24 month placement.
 
#10
I always wondered why my father wanted me to do an Msc in supply chain, guess I would be a sight better off now.

With the MOD banning RN officer promotions for budgetry reasons, they are not going to pay you to sit for 3 years in some dreaming spires, boffing undergraduates. This is not the days of BAOR. Admittedly the Army have talked of in-service degress, but as you say everyone thinks they know someone who might have taken one. The only officers doing ISD I have met were a few years ago and they were ex-Welbexians at Newcastle helping to set up the DTUS scheme. Then again when I did my War Studies MA there were serving RAF officers doing it as an ISD (but then I guess it was just one year).
 
#11
barbarasson said:
With the MOD banning RN officer promotions for budgetry reasons, they are not going to pay you to sit for 3 years in some dreaming spires, boffing undergraduates.
Sadly, they will, and do! Admittedly, DTUS is not a massive programme; this year I think it was 2 R Signals, 2 RE, 4 REME and 6 RLC. 16 YO's out of the 900 odd the Factory churn out every year is not a huge percentage.

It's probably out of a different budget or something......
 
#16
Why not consider doing a degree with the OU? It's very good, and extremely flexible: bachelor degrees can be either highly focused or very broad (the "open degree" scheme), allowing you to mix a range of subjects to suit your interests. Most employers will rate an OU degree taken whilst also working more highly than a "conventional degree" taken on a 3-4 year "work break". Having done degrees "conventionally" and via the OU, can vouch for the academic credibility of the OU: in many respects it was, in fact, superior to traditional/ "proper" univs, and if I had my time again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have wasted so much time farting about as an undergrad at uni, but would have gone OU initially, gained work experience etc, and then used the OU BA as a launch pad for post-grad study.

Another option might be to do a London Univ degree as an external student - Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and many others did this, and it worked for them.

Best wishes,

Wessex_Man.
 
#17
Good advice from WM,

I went the OU route myself.

A word of warning though, the OU course runs through from Spring to late Autumn, which means you get to stay indoors working on each assignment whilst everyone else is outside enjoying the sunshine.

Also, don't be tempted to try and do more than 60 points worth of course each year unless you have loads of spare time. I ended up loosing a year trying to do that.

Edited for rubbish grammar!
 
#18
Regardless of the rules, if your MCM div want to nominate you then they can. But they will not do this without justification - the cost benefit analysis has to work for them as it is a huge investment.

You have been given some ideas already, but you may also consider a career break - this preserves your commission so you have a job to come back to, career development loans and a huge number of other options. I know you have already been to your AEC, but have you been for an interview with the IERO at the AEC. The I&E stand for 'individual education'. They are generally very wise old birds who know huge amounts of stuff that is good for your soul. Can't recommend them highly enough and you have an hour to focus on you, what you want to achieve and how you can get there.
 
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