Do I or dont I?

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
I've got this 'ere rather fetching Tikka M595, with a moderator, PMII S&B, Harris bipod and stuff . . . . . . and I was 'aving a chat with the chaps at Border Barrels the other day (you know, the ones who make the barrels for the L96 et al) and 'e says to me, 'e says "Listen mate, for a very reasonable sum, I could have you a blueprinted Remi 700 action, an AI stock, lavverly weaver rail and a rather nice and shiny cut, fluted barrel all put together and giving your sub 1/2MOA in .308 - and yeah, it'll shoot out to 1000m no problem.".

Now, I'm thinking to myself that this entire package is cheaper than the Sako TRG22, and probably more accurate too, but to get it, I'm going to have to lose my PMII scope (currently retailing NEW at around £1900 sovs).

Over to you folks - do I? And if I do, who's going to make me an offer on my rifle and/or scope?
 
#3
I wouldn't. Border used to make barrels for L96. Don't think they do now. The Remington is not a nice action, blueprinted or not. Sure it'll shoot out to 1000m, so will my No.4
More accurate than a TRG22? Well my TRG has shot groups of .8" at 400yds so I'm not sure how accurate you're hoping for.
Finally, you need a scope such as the PMII to get the best out of such a package anyway.

I've no doubt it would make a very good rifle but I'm not convinced it would be better than a TRG. I've used one of Armalon's similar rifles and it's very accurate but just doesn't touch the TRG

I'd concentrate on load development for your Tikka and see what that'll do. What loads are you using now and what results are you getting?

I'd also ask: What is it for?
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
EX_STAB said:
I wouldn't. Border used to make barrels for L96. Don't think they do now. The Remington is not a nice action, blueprinted or not. Sure it'll shoot out to 1000m, so will my No.4
More accurate than a TRG22? Well my TRG has shot groups of .8" at 400yds so I'm not sure how accurate you're hoping for.
Finally, you need a scope such as the PMII to get the best out of such a package anyway.

I've no doubt it would make a very good rifle but I'm not convinced it would be better than a TRG. I've used one of Armalon's similar rifles and it's very accurate but just doesn't touch the TRG

I'd concentrate on load development for your Tikka and see what that'll do. What loads are you using now and what results are you getting?

I'd also ask: What is it for?
Well, that's an informative answer - thanks.

On that basis, it looks like I'll be saving my pennies for the TRG. I thought it might be a cheaper route to TRG performance, albeit by sacrificing my beloved (I sleep with it you know) PMII. I reckoned I could flog my PMII and it alone would pay for the Border Barrels job.

It sure is a hard decision, and it would have to be mighty fine for me to even consider the scope as a chop-in, hence asking on here.

As for the Tikka - performance so far is tidy, but I've only zeroed it at 100m so far, and I've done bugger-all else with it as yet due to time and location constraints. I've just got a pile of Hornady reloading kit, IMR powder and some 165grain Nosler ballistic tips to start the process of a: learning how not to blow myself up and b: get a nice load for my needs.

I'll be tapping Ugly's vast (planet-sized) brain for tips and hints.

I'll let you know how I get on with.
 
#5
Sell the wife, children, the dog anything but the PM11. Far better to keep the good optics.
Bide your time to collate the cash for a TRG, I dont think you will be disappointed. Mine is a 42 in .338LM and I would carry it to hell and back. Unfortunately, with two kids in Uni I haven't built a big enough slush fund for a PM11 to go on top. Its looking a little underdressed with a Falcon 4-14 on top at the moment. Having said that I can knock the steel plate at 840m every single time without trying.
 
#6
This guy does an AI compatible chassis for Tikka rifles, don't know if it'll fit your M595 though. He seems to have some interesting stuff and reasonable prices, and he's an ex-squaddie too.

http://www.roedale.de/epages/index_n2.htm#a
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
.338lapua_magnum said:
Sell the wife, children, the dog anything but the PM11. Far better to keep the good optics.
Bide your time to collate the cash for a TRG, I dont think you will be disappointed. Mine is a 42 in .338LM and I would carry it to hell and back. Unfortunately, with two kids in Uni I haven't built a big enough slush fund for a PM11 to go on top. Its looking a little underdressed with a Falcon 4-14 on top at the moment. Having said that I can knock the steel plate at 840m every single time without trying.
Sell the wife, kids and dog?!?!? 8O Already done I'm afraid :oops:

Looks like I'm keeping my baby (PMII) though :twisted:

TRG22 it is then.

Thanks Tartan, I'll look him up.
 
#8
I'm running a budget Falcon (10x42) scope on my TRG-22 as well, as I'd run out of funds at the time.

Lets be clear this is no S&B ( I have a 5-25 PMII) but I'm happy with its performance so far, especially given its price tag. This scope is in mils/mils too which is a bonus.
 
#9
Aye Steven04, I have been surprised at how well its done on the 338. When the weather improves later in the year, I would like to see how far I can push the range out to. Be quite interesting to see how it handles 1500m at sea level.

Edited to add: anyone interested in one second hand family, funds required for new S&B PMII. :twisted:
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Thanks a farkin bunch Tartan - really, thanks. Just been drooling at all that kit on their site - now I'm completely confused, totally p!ssed off, and still can't afford any of it! :evil:

Mind you . . . . . . he's got a soft spot for tuning M595 actions and reckons (as we know) that it's a better action than the T3, so there's hope yet of doing a cheap pimp-my-ride job on my M595 . . . and I keep my PMII too!
 
#11
Biped said:
Thanks a farkin bunch Tartan - really, thanks. Just been drooling at all that kit on their site - now I'm completely confused, totally p!ssed off, and still can't afford any of it! :evil:

Mind you . . . . . . he's got a soft spot for tuning M595 actions and reckons (as we know) that it's a better action than the T3, so there's hope yet of doing a cheap pimp-my-ride job on my M595 . . . and I keep my PMII too!
I'd strongly recommend that you work up a good load for the Tikka and see what that will do. You'll be surprised I think.

I would ask again though: What do you want to do with this dream rifle?
I bought the TRG for shooting reactive targets on field firing ranges. Since then I've taken to shooting the McQueen competition but frankly you don't need a TRG or AI to win that. It helps but you don't need it.

You do need a ten round magazine which was one of my requirements in selecting the TRG. I've used Rem 700s with ten round detachable magazine conversions but the handling is poor, very poor ergonomics. If you just want to drill holes in informal club competition I'd suggest you see what the Tikka will do first and decide what your requirements really are before spending any more money.

You won't go far wrong if you build a target load based on either:
155 Lapua Scenar / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.
168 Sierra Match King HPBT / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.

You'll get the powder weights from load tables, Lapua load tables available here:
http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=850

When you're shooting 5" groups at 500yds then start to think about moving on. I'd be surprised if the Tikka isn't good enough to achieve that with a good bipod and a sock full of dried peas.
 
#12
Biped said:
Thanks a farkin bunch Tartan - really, thanks. Just been drooling at all that kit on their site - now I'm completely confused, totally p!ssed off, and still can't afford any of it! :evil:

Mind you . . . . . . he's got a soft spot for tuning M595 actions and reckons (as we know) that it's a better action than the T3, so there's hope yet of doing a cheap pimp-my-ride job on my M595 . . . and I keep my PMII too!
I've been thinking about getting a custom rifle for ages and it is pretty outrageous how much money you can spend. Plus most of the decent smiths seem to be quoting multiples of many months, even just for a simple barrel change, never mind a full custom rig. Roedale seem to have a good reputation, but that Euro exchange rate...

TRG-22s and Unique Alpines are bloody good of course, but again the price is enough to make your eyes water and the long-haired Brigadier gnash her teeth.

However, I think that I have found a possible solution in the Savage target action. Osprey Rifles will sell you one of these, plus a prefit Pac-Nor target barrel in whatever takes your fancy and a laminated target stock for just £1,350. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. The Savages already seem to have a good reputation for accuracy. The best bit though is that you can change your own barrels without any gunsmithing. All you need is a barrel clamp, a Savage barrel wrench, a rawhide mallet and a headspace gauge - no more waiting lists.

The only possible downside is there's no magazine, but then I personally don't need one for target shooting. Now... I just need to persuade her that it's a better idea than a new set of curtains.

 
#13
Tartan_Terrier said:
This guy does an AI compatible chassis for Tikka rifles, don't know if it'll fit your M595 though. He seems to have some interesting stuff and reasonable prices, and he's an ex-squaddie too.

http://www.roedale.de/epages/index_n2.htm#a
He is a good bloke, does some excellent work.
In fact I am off to his place near Osnabruck in a week or so to have a look at a standard Howa 1500, hopefully then get some work done over time
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
EX_STAB said:
Biped said:
Thanks a farkin bunch Tartan - really, thanks. Just been drooling at all that kit on their site - now I'm completely confused, totally p!ssed off, and still can't afford any of it! :evil:

Mind you . . . . . . he's got a soft spot for tuning M595 actions and reckons (as we know) that it's a better action than the T3, so there's hope yet of doing a cheap pimp-my-ride job on my M595 . . . and I keep my PMII too!
I'd strongly recommend that you work up a good load for the Tikka and see what that will do. You'll be surprised I think.

I would ask again though: What do you want to do with this dream rifle?
I bought the TRG for shooting reactive targets on field firing ranges. Since then I've taken to shooting the McQueen competition but frankly you don't need a TRG or AI to win that. It helps but you don't need it.

You do need a ten round magazine which was one of my requirements in selecting the TRG. I've used Rem 700s with ten round detachable magazine conversions but the handling is poor, very poor ergonomics. If you just want to drill holes in informal club competition I'd suggest you see what the Tikka will do first and decide what your requirements really are before spending any more money.

You won't go far wrong if you build a target load based on either:
155 Lapua Scenar / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.
168 Sierra Match King HPBT / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.

You'll get the powder weights from load tables, Lapua load tables available here:
http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=850

When you're shooting 5" groups at 500yds then start to think about moving on. I'd be surprised if the Tikka isn't good enough to achieve that with a good bipod and a sock full of dried peas.
Thanks for that EX. I'm looking for a dead-on all-rounder. I want to stalk and hunt, and I want to be able to do it from 50 to 500 yards. If I feel a burning desire to punch paper, I'd like to be able to do that out to 800-1000yds too.

I know it's a big ask, but what the hell! I'm thinking that my course of action will be to, as you suggest, develop a nice load for it to start with, see how it does, then next on the list might be to blueprint the action, see what that does, and maybe longer term, think about the barrel some more and maybe even the stock.

How's that for a careful, not-hugely-expensive-keep-the-long-haired-brigadier-off-my-back kind of solution?
 
#15
I'd just go with it as it is and when you can shoot better than it can buy something else that will do what you require. Don't bother messing with it.

It'll be a very rare occasion that you take anything beyond 200 yds when stalking. 500 yds when stalking? That's not stalking.

For hunting you will need a horse! ;)
 
#16
The way i see it, You have two options

Buy a out of the box factory Rifle like the TRG, But depending on how much you have to spend look at the RPA Range Master, Blaser Tactical 2(based on the R93/LRS2)

Or you could build one, This is the option i recommend, As long as you get the best action to start with you can always upgrade the barrel and stock etc.

Here is my latest build

Surgeon Action ( Best Tactical Action on the market atm )
Border Barrels Archer barrel ( 24" T2 profile - Med Heavy bench rest, 1/11 Twist, .308)
Surefire Muzzle/adptor
Jewell trigger
AICS 1.5 Stock ( Not the best stock in the world but i like it )

This would set you back about 2800.

The only part i am not 100% on is the Barrel i will try it and if i dont like it il replace it with a bartlein barrel.


but if you wanted something cheaper you could buy a remmy SPS Varmint(HB) or PSS and drop it in to a AICS or McMillan A5, That will shoot great for the money. Around 1300. Then once you reach the limits where the rilfe is holding you back, You can upgrade the Trigger/Barrel etc . I would like to add, That the above setup would last the non competer targetshooters a long time.


Just don't jump in to buying a rilfe. Its like finding a good women.

Ask your self

what you want from that Women(rifle)
How much is this going to cost to run, maintenance etc


I would like to confirm what was said earlier,

155 Lapua Scenar / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.
168 Sierra Match King HPBT / Lapua Brass (Neck Sized) / Viht N140 / CCI Primer.

Two of the best heads on the market at the mo for long range shooting.

the reason i went with the .308 was for the factory ammo.

My rifle is build around

Lapua Scenar 155gr/GB491 Product Number :: 4317073

Federal Gold Match 168gr SMK Product Number :: GM308M


EDIT TO ADD :: If your going with a custom build talk Dave wilde the gunsmithto at south Yorkshire shooting supplies.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Okay, cool, getting the point.

I'll take your advice Ex-Stab (and everyone elses in doses of course).

I may be off boar shooting on Saturday night if the missus will let me play . . . .
 
#18
Biped said:
Okay, cool, getting the point.

I'll take your advice Ex-Stab (and everyone elses in doses of course).

I may be off boar shooting on Saturday night if the missus will let me play . . . .
Let's hope you bring home the bacon!
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
I did indeed. We got two, one of which carcasses I'm proud to call my own.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top