DMS20 - Who's for the chop?

#1
Project is complete, presentations have been presented and those that are in the know are in the know. So who's going to bear the brunt of it? My money's on:

RADC - across the board, if ever there was a capability thaht could be easily outsourced this has to be it.
Clin Phys. I've had many a chat with Clin Phys and whilst they're good guys, I could never really see the point of having them in uniform. Clin Phys is not the first thing you would yell for in an acute situation and why have them in SHC when we have the NHS..

Any other offers?
 
#2
HCA - Why have someone to do a job nurses can't be arsed doing?
Dog Handlers - Outsource to regiments, people like walking dogs
Vets/Techs - Can be outsourced
BMS - Shit load of Sgts. Gibs gone, Akrotiri is gone, With Herrick 'drawing down' in 2014 can be outsourced
Pharmacists/Pharm techs - Can be outsourced
EHT - Can be outsourced
CMT's - with everyone else going, the largest group of people in the RAMC is likely to take a hit.

Then when America decides to invade someone else, we are going to be fucked when asked to join in, but as long as it save money in the short term does it really matter.
 
#3
HCA - Why have someone to do a job nurses can't be arsed doing?
Dog Handlers - Outsource to regiments, people like walking dogs
Vets/Techs - Can be outsourced
BMS - Shit load of Sgts. Gibs gone, Akrotiri is gone, With Herrick 'drawing down' in 2014 can be outsourced
Pharmacists/Pharm techs - Can be outsourced
EHT - Can be outsourced
CMT's - with everyone else going, the largest group of people in the RAMC is likely to take a hit.

Then when America decides to invade someone else, we are going to be fucked when asked to join in, but as long as it save money in the short term does it really matter.
Phew! looks like I'm safe, shall I stop packing?
 
#5
How about consulatants?

They get paid wads of cash, and only do 6 week tours anyway. Outsource to the NHS, and hope the RAF don't break down when you need that badly injured patient to have specialist care.

As for x-ray, don't 'combat' x-ray technicians carry their portable x-ray machines across the battlefield? ;)
 
#6
How about consulatants?

They get paid wads of cash, and only do 6 week tours anyway. Outsource to the NHS, and hope the RAF don't break down when you need that badly injured patient to have specialist care.

As for x-ray, don't 'combat' x-ray technicians carry their portable x-ray machines across the battlefield? ;)
Oh dear..................another one who doesn't realise that half the Consultants (spelt correctly) are PART of the NHS!!!!
 
#8
Here's a thought that will save money on a regular basis, but more importantly, might save some poor ******'s life - why not take on tour only those TA bods who are actually QUALIFIED for the pid that needs filling, not just some random who happens to be a little bit fitter?

And I don't mean qualified as in 'has done a TA CMT course, backed up by a bridging course', I mean people that do the job day in, day out..........
 

Fang_Farrier

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#9
Perhaps keep MOs and DOs in clinical roles rather than redeploy to command/staff type roles for which they have little training.

Or at least that was what happened in my day.

Ah, I see you've reached Major as you've been in 7 years, we'd like to encourage you to stay in, you'd like to command a Field Ambulance Squadron, even though no subunit command experience, of course you can.
 
#11
Here's a thought that will save money on a regular basis, but more importantly, might save some poor ******'s life - why not take on tour only those TA bods who are actually QUALIFIED for the pid that needs filling, not just some random who happens to be a little bit fitter?

And I don't mean qualified as in 'has done a TA CMT course, backed up by a bridging course', I mean people that do the job day in, day out..........
Give it a rest and dry your eyes..... TA CMT 1s who've done the course and whatever PDT they need ARE qualified according to the medical doctrine we use and routinely save 'some poor ******'s life'. Unless you know better of course? I'm sure the Surgeon General would love to hear your views.....
 
#12
Here's a thought that will save money on a regular basis, but more importantly, might save some poor ******'s life - why not take on tour only those TA bods who are actually QUALIFIED for the pid that needs filling, not just some random who happens to be a little bit fitter?

And I don't mean qualified as in 'has done a TA CMT course, backed up by a bridging course', I mean people that do the job day in, day out..........
Give it a rest and dry your eyes..... You're just sounding chippy now. TA CMT 1s who've done the course and whatever PDT they need ARE qualified according to the medical doctrine we use and routinely save 'some poor ******'s life'. Unless you know better of course? I'm sure the Surgeon General would love to hear your views.....
 
#13
Bit late on this aren't you?

But my point still stands. I think roles in the reserves need to be more closely aligned with the reservists civilian job, wherever possible, regardless of rank.

Would you be just as quick to say that a reserve infantry soldier, after PDT, would be just as capable as the regular guy that does it full time?

You do come across as one of those nursing officers who do a ward or community job in real life, but like to put themselves into emergency medicine whilst in green, using their rank to weasel their way in.

I might be wrong, but sadly that's another avenue that gets exploited and is also what I was referring to in the post you quoted......
 
#14
But my point still stands. I think roles in the reserves need to be more closely aligned with the reservists civilian job, wherever possible, regardless of rank.

Would you be just as quick to say that a reserve infantry soldier, after PDT, would be just as capable as the regular guy that does it full time?
I would be quite interested to know quite how you think those two, quite conflicting statements, correlate.

You do come across as one of those nursing officers who do a ward or community job in real life, but like to put themselves into emergency medicine whilst in green, using their rank to weasel their way in.
You have not been on OPs recently have you?
 
#15
Bit late on this aren't you?

But my point still stands. I think roles in the reserves need to be more closely aligned with the reservists civilian job, wherever possible, regardless of rank.

Would you be just as quick to say that a reserve infantry soldier, after PDT, would be just as capable as the regular guy that does it full time?

You do come across as one of those nursing officers who do a ward or community job in real life, but like to put themselves into emergency medicine whilst in green, using their rank to weasel their way in.

I might be wrong, but sadly that's another avenue that gets exploited and is also what I was referring to in the post you quoted......
I dont know when you last deployed but the last time I did we had some amazing people doing the job they were meant to do. Ward nurses and HCA's with great skills and experience.ITU specialist staff. Radiographers working a vast array of equipment. Lab techs with turn around times I would kill for back here in the NHS. A&E staff who saved lives on a daily basis, skilled and caring. CMT's working both in Bastion and the FOB's who were so good outsiders thought they were more qualified than they were. Even psych people who helped an enormous ammount with support and care right up to the pointy bit.

Oh yeah we all were reservists as well. So go away!
 
#16
Bit late on this aren't you?

But my point still stands. I think roles in the reserves need to be more closely aligned with the reservists civilian job, wherever possible, regardless of rank.

Would you be just as quick to say that a reserve infantry soldier, after PDT, would be just as capable as the regular guy that does it full time?

You do come across as one of those nursing officers who do a ward or community job in real life, but like to put themselves into emergency medicine whilst in green, using their rank to weasel their way in.

I might be wrong, but sadly that's another avenue that gets exploited and is also what I was referring to in the post you quoted......
I thought you wasn't bothered about rank... You gobshite.

See your upsetting people here too with your ill thought out bull shit remarks.

I suggest you hand your green kit in and stick to the day job, you bitter old sod


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#17
You do come across as one of those nursing officers who do a ward or community job in real life, but like to put themselves into emergency medicine whilst in green, using their rank to weasel their way in.

I might be wrong, but sadly that's another avenue that gets exploited and is also what I was referring to in the post you quoted......

You're completely wrong as it happens. Not that it matters to the army, they're just interested in my qualification, but my 'real life' job, as you quaintly put it, is as a registered manager and director of nursing for a private hospital, still with clinical input. My rank isn't linked to my civilian job or relevant to the job I did when I deployed, and it's possible to do it equally well from corporal all the way up to the half colonel who I deployed with.

Rank has other responsibilities attached to it and having it doesn't make it any easier to 'weasel their way in' as you put it, in fact the colonel found exactly the opposite, his rank meant that he struggled to go anywhere other than KAF or Kabul, the SSgt and I went everywhere else. The only difference my rank made was that I could access Adjt/COs on occasion if I needed to explain a plan of treatment to them.

My username should give you an idea of my speciality (I'll give you a clue, it's not emergency medicine) but the same applies across all the disciplines. We have an ITU ward sister, definitely a band 7 and may well be an 8a, who's a corporal and she's quite happy to deploy on that basis, it's the job she's interested in, not the rank.

Would you be just as quick to say that a reserve infantry soldier, after PDT, would be just as capable as the regular guy that does it full time?


Your point doesn't make sense. You're a civilian paramedic so you don't do the army equivalent job full time as there isn't one. Equally there isn't a civilian equivalent of a CMT. There are some paramedic qualified CMTs but relatively few in number. They still work as CMTs. On my deployment, inexperienced regular and TA CMTs whether in Bastion, in FOBs or out and about on patrol did a fantastic job.

My unit also has a senior operational manager paramedic who's still on frontline duty for the NHS. He's a LCpl and has deployed as such. I've never heard him complaining about rank or the fact that he's treated like the other CMT 1s on deployment.

I did note that you were offered a tour that declined, from the sounds of it because it wasn't warry enough. CMTs in Bastion do just as important a job as those out and about, it's just different.
 
#18
techtechtech - the two don't correlate - so for me, soldiering needs to be left to soldiers, with support roles being given to those trained to do them. If that measn the majority of TA end up backfilling slots, then so be it.

1stGulfMac - At no point have I said anything about the abilities of any given medical staff whilst employed within their role. But I do think that without the NHS, especially once Herrick draws down, the AMS would simply implode, as it draws most of it's skillsets from the civvy sector. I also think that there are a lot of very, VERY good regular staff with a high degree of skills, thanks to the tours they have been on - but, again, those tours are coming to an end and the chances to keep those skills 'current' will only come if they are practising them outside of the military.

And whilst it's been a while since I deployed, this thread was/is about the cuts that may be made in DMS20 and, to my mind, those cuts need to be made to redress the top heavy structure which often sees staff working in green in areas that they simply don't work in in civvy street and to try and match skillsets from people's civvy jobs.

I know colleagues of mine who deployed to Bastion fairly recently and did nothing other than acting as runners or scribes in the ED. Whilst those are undoubtedly vital jobs, bearing in mind the Army is making up their wages to match their civvy pay, you're wasting £30k + a year plus a shed load of clinical skills in a role that can be done just as well by an HCA.

On the flip side, I know of many cases where ward nurses, as skilled as they may be in their particular role, being given ED slots because their rank met the PID that needed filling. That's the sort of imbalance and poor use of skills that I think needs addressing sharpish.

I can't give to many details without IDing myself, but I can assure you that the DMS, from almost the very, VERY top, has no clue about the abilities or skillsets of the civvy Paramedic and, sadly, I know many colleagues who have joined the reserves in recent years, have been keen to go and do their bit, but have become utterly frustrated at how they've been treated, so have since left.

Anyway........
 
#19
I thought you wasn't bothered about rank... You gobshite.

See your upsetting people here too with your ill thought out bull shit remarks.

I suggest you hand your green kit in and stick to the day job, you bitter old sod


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Bitter? I think you're looking in the mirror again! I'm not bothered about rank - but I do see it abused. Anti-TA PSIs are normally a dab hand at that........
 
#20
I do think the AMS both regular and TA are an anomaly within the armed forces. A lot of the time rank doesn't even come into it once skill levels are established. See CMT's on patrol, handing over to MERT at a skill level way above expectation. Ever since I joined the TA has also been recognised as a major component of the AMS contributing large numbers/skills and values. Come draw down we will face the same problems as every other reorganisation, such as hospital closure etc. Then along comes an episode of conflict and the TA will step up and do the job. However we also have our regular partners working within an NHS environment so clinical skills are kept up to par and beyond. Dont really understand what your problem is but I think you need to chill out or move on. Change will happen, things are not perfect. Its a big thing to control.
 
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