Diving through the back door.

#1
Chaps,

Quick straw poll. TA subbie, 6 month TELIC in a sensible i.e. Platoon Comd role with a regular unit, subsequently allowed to transfer straight in without doing CC. On, or not on?

Eyethankyou,

Chuckles
 
#2
My knee jerk reaction is "NO" but he holds a Queen's Commission and has demonstrated competence in an Operational Environment - notably not by doing watchkeeper but a role testing leadership and courage. I assume that the CO endorsed his application having satisfied himself that he's a good bloke.

I wouldn't like the 'backdoor' to be wide open but like I said, if he's a good bloke...

[Would be interested to hear what a RMAS instructor had to say]
 
#3
Been done before. TA subbie served with me on OP TELIC, top quality guy, by-passed RMAS, but had to do Young Officers course. Subsequently taken into a regular Regiment as a 2nd Lt.

The downside was he lost all his seniority and was at the bottom of the pile.
 
#4
On.

msr
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#5
On. He has shown the ability to do the job, but bypassed the opportunity to show boots polished, kit pressed, bed made etc. Which is more important?
 
#6
on. However might this not cause problems in the future? as surely it isn't just the drill and polish thats he's missed at Sandhurst and could it not affect possible promotion prospects.
RH
 
#8
ON
And if it is the same chap that I am thinking of he had also passed regular PCD and was one of the top in his class.
Still RMAS might have adjusted his character
 
#9
No problem, as they used to say of Neil Back "if you're good enough, you're big enough"...
 
#10
The_Duke said:
On. He has shown the ability to do the job, but bypassed the opportunity to show boots polished, kit pressed, bed made etc. Which is more important?
After all that's all they teach at RMAS :roll:
 
#11
barbs said:
The_Duke said:
On. He has shown the ability to do the job, but bypassed the opportunity to show boots polished, kit pressed, bed made etc. Which is more important?
After all that's all they teach at RMAS :roll:
At RMAS, stand fast military knowledge, they don't teach stuff, they "develop" it. This character has probably been developing his OLQs in a rather more testing environment..."experience is a hard mistress, she gives the examination first and then the lesson"...
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#12
barbs said:
The_Duke said:
On. He has shown the ability to do the job, but bypassed the opportunity to show boots polished, kit pressed, bed made etc. Which is more important?
After all that's all they teach at RMAS :roll:
Simplified example, but the point was understood by all.

He has obviously demonstrated his leadership ability, man management skills, judgement, tactical awareness etc etc when in role as a Pl Comd in order for his CofC to recommend him for conversion to an SSC bypassing RMAS. He will have missed some of the other experiences and lessons of RMAS, but how many of those (over and above the key ones listed above) will he need to use as a Pl Comd and not be able to obtain from his OC or other suitable mentor?
 
#13
The_Duke said:
barbs said:
The_Duke said:
On. He has shown the ability to do the job, but bypassed the opportunity to show boots polished, kit pressed, bed made etc. Which is more important?
After all that's all they teach at RMAS :roll:
Simplified example, but the point was understood by all.

He has obviously demonstrated his leadership ability, man management skills, judgement, tactical awareness etc etc when in role as a Pl Comd in order for his CofC to recommend him for conversion to an SSC bypassing RMAS. He will have missed some of the other experiences and lessons of RMAS, but how many of those (over and above the key ones listed above) will he need to use as a Pl Comd and not be able to obtain from his OC or other suitable mentor?
You are absolutely right, RMAS only prepares you for your first appointment, if you've already done that and shown potential for the future then there is little that RMAS can give you an advantage in. It is right that the system can be flexible... it makes a change, doesn't it? It does highlight the issue of the amount of drill at RMAS which is just for the Sovereign's Parade because it has sod all to do with 95% of first appointments!
 
#14
devexwarrior said:
Cr@p-I saw the title and thought the thread was about dodgy bumshovelling-oh well...
Yeah - this thread is nothing like as rude as I was expecting it to be. Indeed, your "dodgy bumshovelling" only just rescues it from oblivion.
 
#15
if i had to do it then he should do it as well. it is a fundamental part of being an officer and i'm sure he would get some benefit from it- if he is any good then he should want to go there! NOT ON.
 
#16
asr1 said:
if i had to do it then he should do it as well. it is a fundamental part of being an officer and i'm sure he would get some benefit from it- if he is any good then he should want to go there! NOT ON.
Maybe he knows when it is appropriate to capitalise...
 
#18
The chap who came top on my JSC (TA) was offered a similar deal on the back of performance on a ten day course - no operational experience required what so ever. This sounds like a far more sensible prospect. The whole 'I had to live through the CC so he should do too', smacks of the petulance of a well balanced individual - you know the type, a chip on both shoulders...
 
#19
asr1 said:
if i had to do it then he should do it as well.
A thoroughly convincing and well thought out argument, reinforced by an unconventional use of capitalisation. No doubt the fact you had to do the full regular course and he did not has addressed all the possible issues of selection, training gaps and knowledge base which this issue raise. Thank you for a valuable post; it is thanks to opinions like yours that the One Army Concept remains pie in the sky.

Indeed if this young man wishes to make a career for himself in the Regular Army then my advice would be to resign and go back to Sandhurst to do the full regular course; not because he will learn or develop so much over this period but because if he does not there will always be people with asr1's opinion willing to shaft him career-wise rather than recognising his ability.

The route followed by this officer is not a 'back door' one off, it is a policy developed and implemented by ATRA with the Commandant RMAS and supported by the CoC. They recognise that the TA commissioning process, including the post RMAS modules, cover the majority of critical TOs. The remaining training gap will be covered by further officer training (MK1, JOTES etc) and by an extended period at RD reflected by a reduced seniority.

Perhaps what you meant to say was:
While he has proved himself capable of performing the functions of a junior officer on operations I fear that he may lack some of the knowledge and experience which I gained during my time at RMAS. If he were coming to my unit I would welcome him and treat him as any other fellow officer, not undermine him by referring to him as 'The Stab' to his men and assist where required to develop those areas where he may need assistance.
On the other hand if you or anyone else really want to stick to your opinion don't tell us - go and have a go at ATRA or the Commandant RMAS - its their policy.
 

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