Diving finds

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by Rockhopperst4, Jul 26, 2010.

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  1. Someone on one of the diving forums i frequent found these on a sunken WW1 armed trawler - can anyone identify them?

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  2. one on the left looks like a martini-henry cartridge?, bit strange to find this on a ww1 era ship surely it would all be .303 by then?
  3. Armed trawlers and other auxiliary services were armed with all sorts of obsolete & foreign weapons. There are indeed accounts of .577/450 Martini-Henrys being used - the ammunition was still around in quantity even up until WW2.
  4. not a good idea to recover munitions from an old wreck, even small arms ammo
  5. Its not my stuff guys and i have already expressed my concerns!

    I thought Martini Henry as well but the other one has stumped me a bit as it looks like a .303 but its a rimless case.
  6. Could it be .256 Arisaka that was a 6,5mm x 50 mm semi rimless round and there were over 150.000 of then issued in WW1. they were most certainly used on minesweeping trawlers, And some Martini Henrys were still used even by front line units in the East Africa when Enfields were in short supply in the early part of the war
  7. That doesn't look like a Martini-Henry 577-450 to me - not 'fat enough" See attached.

    It is difficult, with nothing to give scale. The headstamp could be R [Broad Arrow] L = Royal Laboratories (Woolwich)

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  8. In WW1 the minesweepers were issued with a complete hodgpodg of weapons, including Arisaka, Snider Enfields,French Gras,, single shot Remingtons,Russian Berdans,Belgian Albini-Braendlin, American 44/40 Wincesters, and even 7.92 Mausers, from captured stocks, and dont even ask what calibres that lot came in,

    So Ill go a 44/40 and a 6.5 Arisaka
  9. 44/40 is basically a bottleneck pistol cartridge, so it definitely isn't that.

    Could be .450 Gardner Gatling, .450 No.2 Musket or similar (there were quite a few similar .450 blackpowder cartridges in use for hand-cranked machine guns, and it is entirely plausible that such devices would be mounted on an armed merchantman of that time period)

    Right-hand one is definitely 6.5 Japanese.
  10. .450 Gatling:

    .450 Gardner:
  11. I must be a bit speshiul but I cannae see any difference between the Gardner and the Gatling.

  12. The difference is small, and I believe that they are probably interchangeable, particularly with the sloppy chambering and exceptionally generous throating of the era:


  13. what the F**k would a minesweeper have a crap out of date machine gun for?. the rifles were used to detonate mines when they came up after being cut loose by the sweep, so why a machine gun, there is no record of such guns in the RN WW1 history in home waters
  14. Looks to me like it is a straight tapered case. MUNICION.ORG is your friend!
  15. Self-defence. As an example, look at all the WWII Royal Air Force ASR launches armed with "a crap out of date machine gun" - the Lewis Gun.