Dispatches: And would the TA look after you if injured?

#1
After watching Dispatches: Battle Fatigue on 4 last night,

I've been pondering on (sorry, getting well worried about) what would happen if you were injured, if for instance, whilst on a weekend away, annual camp, or on a course outside the UK?

Say you broke a leg or hurt your back and couldn’t work for a few weeks, would the Army make up for lost earnings and look after you?

What if you could never work again? Would you get a pension or payout?

If you were deployed in Iraq or somewhere and any of the above happened, or you got wounded, what would happen?


As someone who is about to go away for 12 months, should i get personal accident and life insurance if the Army will desert you as they seem to be doing?

:?:
 
#2
Not 100% sure on now, but I know for a fact that they never used to. You are 'suposed' to have personal accident cover, like RPAX to cover for any such emergancy. Thing is they never tell you that or offer to pay it or offer to pay you when it is their fault.
 
#3
Can't say much about injury, but your family is F**cked if you get killed on duty.

A TA soldier killed on Telic was earning £30k in his civi job, two kids and a wife at home to look after them.
His widow picks up a total of £4K now in pension payments thanks to the nice little get out the MOD has over pension payments.
A regular soldiers widow the same rank and capbadge picks up over £15K due to the fact her husband worked as a full time soldier and made regular pension contrabutions.

One Army? B*ll*cks

If it wasn't for the TA lads civi firm paying out death in service benefits his Mrs would have lost everything he worked for.
 
#4
Hi all new to the site and this caught my eye, I'm serving with a REME TA unit, i broke my back in 3 places :( in august last year (while on duty), i was paid till my civvie sick chit ran out (NOV 05), cant help with getting more money as at the min i'm happy with what the Army and more particular my unit have done for me, hope this helps (if only a little bit).

Regards

Wayne
 
#5
Carlos_Hathcock_II said:
Not 100% sure on now, but I know for a fact that they never used to. You are 'suposed' to have personal accident cover, like RPAX to cover for any such emergancy. Thing is they never tell you that or offer to pay it or offer to pay you when it is their fault.
Its something thats never been discussed or thought about. I thought the army look after you full stop and never bothered to ask or thought about it.

You'd think that the Army/TA would go through something so important like this with you at basic training stage? (Or do they and i've just missed it?)

Surely they have a duty of care?

:?
 
#6
I was injured on camp last year and had to have a month of work.
There is a system in place to make up loss of earnings but you have to make sure you have the correct paper trail.
 
#7
I thought that the Rgt funds (OCA payments) had a benefit system if you fell on hard times e.g. through injury whilst on duty?
 
#8
Cant comment on injuries, but I've seen first hand the way TA soldiers get 'dumped' at Chilwell following a deployment/FTRS. The times I've been through the place, there was no interest from the time you stepped off the plane at Brize until you were told you could leave and return home.

Apart from staff being obnoxious/arrogant/rude it was very much a case of 'thanks - now fcuk off!' even as far as people having to hire their own cars for onward travel as the MT refused point blank to do it. Every time I've been through there, I've ended up paying for my own hire car out of sheer frustration. I also have a close friend who returned from deployment with me who had to get a train with 6 months worth of operational kit AND his comfy box as they wouldnt entertain getting him a vehicle to travel over 200 miles north in, yet gave 2 officers a people carrier to travel just over 50 miles.
 
#9
MicknDarcy

You got thanks!!!!

I'm an officer and didn't get a car on demob as the moment I was demobbed I was back on my units strength and they were responsible. The fact that I was on the Regular Army strength until after my post op leave seemed to elude them.

This is one of the most important threads ever started on ARRSE, let's not go down the Chillwell slagging road (easy as that would be) rather let us use this thread to build up a body of evidence about whether or not the MOD do look after people they break. It was always my belief that we were not demobbed until we were fit to be so. If this is not the case then we need to know.
 
#10
Baldrick66 said:
A TA soldier killed on Telic was earning £30k in his civi job, two kids and a wife at home to look after them.
His widow picks up a total of £4K now in pension payments thanks to the nice little get out the MOD has over pension payments.
A regular soldiers widow the same rank and capbadge picks up over £15K due to the fact her husband worked as a full time soldier and made regular pension contrabutions.
Is that true? that is absolutely disgusting. That is probably the worst thing I've read on this site, don't know why but I always assumed the army would look after my family if I was killed on ops (that I'm in the TA wouldn't come into it).
 
#11
Polar

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't true! Most of what she gets comes from the standard War Pension which to be honest is only a little more than you would get on the dole. Oh and it's taxable to!
As I said if it wasn't for the lads civi company paying out she'd have lost her house and living on the bread line.
 
#13
cannon fodder said:
One of the lads from my old battalion lost an eye by an IED, in the sand pit, and and he got a huge pay out.. over £100k from the MOD
From the MOD? or from the PAX insurance he would have been advised to take out at Chilwell?
 
#14
Think the army will look after you? think everything will be ok? oh the naivity! they don't give a flying f***. there was a scandal recently about TA soldiers having to pay for their own medical treatment after being injured on operational tours (thats operations, as in mobilised, not even training). so what did the MOD have to say?
"Members of the Territorial Army and Reserves receive the same standards of medical care as the regular army when on mobilised service" sounds reassuring doesn't it? now read it again. what about after they have sent you back to the UK and demobbed you? well, as far as I can see from that point on they really don't seem that bothered what happens to you, after all, you might cost them a few grand when they would rather spend millions on bollocks weapon systems or dodgy helicopter software! DO NOT rely on the army to look after you. RPAX helps but even that isn't enough in my case. I took out 8 units before I went on telic, but that would only last me for about a month of work, and I am self employed so no sick pay for me.

Even if they did decide to pay you something, looking at how efficient their pay system is by the time you actually got something your house would have been repossesd, your wife sold as a sex slave and the kids to medical science!
 
#15
polar said:
Baldrick66 said:
A TA soldier killed on Telic was earning £30k in his civi job, two kids and a wife at home to look after them.
His widow picks up a total of £4K now in pension payments thanks to the nice little get out the MOD has over pension payments.
A regular soldiers widow the same rank and capbadge picks up over £15K due to the fact her husband worked as a full time soldier and made regular pension contrabutions.
Is that true? that is absolutely disgusting. That is probably the worst thing I've read on this site, don't know why but I always assumed the army would look after my family if I was killed on ops (that I'm in the TA wouldn't come into it).
The Army site has a big chunk on pensions. For Death in Service the example given is of the survivor getting 60% of the military salary less an age related adjustment. £4k sounds wrong. ( deeply wrong !!)

What was the get out ?
 
#16
hmmm.

On training: We had someone break their arm on an assault course. The army kept on paying her until she was well enough to work (as far as i am aware)

Dying/injured on ops, I asked my Sabre rep this question a little while ago. I attach the answer below. I'm still waiting for one part of it, but hopefully this thread will stir her into action.

Please bear in mind that I am not an expert on any of these issues, but can only point you in the right direction to find more information. I am not a qualified legal adviser, and therefore can only offer you my own interpretation of each issue.

The Veterans Agency website has also has a very useful summary of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme. This is a new scheme which came into effect on 6 April 2005, and covers incidents from 6 April 2005 onwards. This is found on www.veteransagency.mod.uk then click on the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme link on the left hand side.

To sum up the benefits very briefly, both regulars and reservists are entitled to:
On injury, a lump sum will be payable based on a 15-level tariff graduated according to the seriousness of the condition.
A graduated Guaranteed Income Payment (GIP), index-linked, tax free and payable for life, will also be paid to those who could be expected to experience a significant loss of earning capacity. A GIP will also be paid to surviving partners (including unmarried and same sex partners) where the service person's death was caused by service.
To work out the amount of any GIP payable, the Veterans Agency would multiply your salary* against a factor according to your age, and then multiply that against the seriousness of the injury. i.e if you are 36, earn £35,000 and lose a leg whilst mobilised (or during routine training), your GIP payments would be:
Salary x GIP factor = £35,000 x 0.799 = £27,965
As the injury is in tariff level 5, you will receive 75% of the full GIP, so you will be entitled to £20,973 a year tax free. This is paid monthly.

The difference between reservists and regulars is that GIP payments are abated by any ill health payments made by personal or company pension schemes, insurance schemes or any criminal compensation schemes. Regulars will have their GIP abated by 100% of the relevant Armed Forces Pension Scheme (75 or 05) payments (as these are tax-free). Reservist's GIPs are reduced by 75% of the value of any civilian payments they receive (as these are taxable). This is because it is MOD policy (in line with all public service schemes) not to compensate twice for the same injury.

ie. if you are in receipt of a company pension ill health entitlement of £15,000, the AFCS would make a reduction of 75% of this entitlement. Your GIP would therefore be £20,973 - (0.75 x £15,000) = 9,723. Your total compensation would therefore be:

From pension fund £15,000
GIP £ 9,723
Total £24,723

Should you be killed in action, your wife would receive 60% of the total GIP payment (i.e £35,000 x 0.799 = £27,965 x 0.6 = 16,779). There are also percentage GIP payments for eligible children.

* The crucial piece of information I am waiting for is confirmation of which salary would be used to calculate a Reservist's GIP payment. The booklet states that for Reservists, the salary used would be the military salary plus any 'top up' payments received under the old financial assistance regulations. I would like to be able to say that under the 2005 financial assistance regulations, GIP payments would be calculated according to a Reservist's civilian salary, but I am waiting for confirmation of this. I will send you the answer as soon as I have it.
I'd agree though that the dispatches programm shows that all soldiers need to fight for their rights, and TA soldiers more than others.
 
#17
This post caveated by the fact that I am Reg rather than TA but here goes:

1. The Army does have several systems in place. The Armed Forces Compensation Scheme is one of the key factors, backed by Pension rights.
2. There is also the Army Dependants' Trust, which gives a payout within 48 hrs of death on duty if you are a member. Unit G1 staff will have the details. It is not much (c. £10-15K I think), but for a £5/£10 annual outlay is better than nothing.
3. PAX/ RPAX: Strongly recommended for all. You can buy it in different numbers of units. For example, pay for 3 units for most of the time & bump it up to 10 units prior to deployment on ops. Details from unit G1 staff.
4. NAAFI Financial: Also does Life Insurance including War risks. Details in Admin Offices and Soldier Magazine/ Internet.
5. Unit Welfare Funds: Dependant upon units and the people running them. I know that my unit (admittedly Reg rather than TA) has spent large amounts of money helping those injured in the course of duty both old & bold and serving soldiers and their families.
6. A sad fact is that the Army Med Services have been sold down the river. BUPA Armed Forces Scheme is recommended.
7. Get your Life Insurance sorted out. Check any Critical Illness Cover that you have and ask the Company what it will cover if you are killed/ injured on ops.
8. A final thought is that is up to all of us, as adults, to be responsible for our own finanical affairs and to have them in good order. The Army does try to look after you and your family, and does so far better than most civvy companies. I sometimes think that some people believe that the Army is mandated to give their families hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation when things go wrong. The bald fact is that there is a limit to funds. Controversial probably I know. But contrast what the Army does with what many civvy companies would do if you were killed. Say you were killed in an accident working for [any number of examples - say a major supermarket?]: what do you think they would do for you and your family? Even when the Army does it badly, I think that it does it better than most.
 
#18
Trossachs said:
polar said:
Baldrick66 said:
A TA soldier killed on Telic was earning £30k in his civi job, two kids and a wife at home to look after them.
His widow picks up a total of £4K now in pension payments thanks to the nice little get out the MOD has over pension payments.
A regular soldiers widow the same rank and capbadge picks up over £15K due to the fact her husband worked as a full time soldier and made regular pension contrabutions.
Is that true? that is absolutely disgusting. That is probably the worst thing I've read on this site, don't know why but I always assumed the army would look after my family if I was killed on ops (that I'm in the TA wouldn't come into it).
The Army site has a big chunk on pensions. For Death in Service the example given is of the survivor getting 60% of the military salary less an age related adjustment. £4k sounds wrong. ( deeply wrong !!)

What was the get out ?
T

The bottom line for the TA is that as they don't pay towards regular army pension, they don't get the death in service benifits afforded to a regular soldier. At the time the widow was advised she would get full benefits only to recieve a letter some months after the funeral stating that all she was entitled to was the standard Widows pension plus the childrens entitlement of around £1900 for the two kids. She was still in a state over the funeral as she had to send a solicitors letter to the Army to pay the funeral director.
The lump sum of £11K was paid within a few days, along with £9K she recieved from a US charity which all widows of all soldiers recieve who are killed in theatre. After that, she's recieved next to nothing and was even advised to get a job by the Army if she wanted the same standard of living! Their civi life insurance at first refused to pay out under the 'War Zone' clause in the policy and it was only after threats of the press etc that she recieved a much reduced payout from them nearly two years later. If it wasn't for the good will of her husbands employer who honoured his death in service policy she would have been in real finacial trouble.
All this has left the family very bitter towards the Army and the TA, even to the extent that she has now cut all ties with anyone who has anything to do with the forces and her husbands unit.
 
#19
Baldrick 66, Presumably this was before April 05 when the new regs kicked in. I agree with you that this treatment is despicable, but its probably a good idea to caveat it, so that people know the current situation (which, I'm guessing, is as per Crack_On's post).
 
#20
Purple_Emperor said:
Baldrick 66, Presumably this was before April 05 when the new regs kicked in. I agree with you that this treatment is despicable, but its probably a good idea to caveat it, so that people know the current situation (which, I'm guessing, is as per Crack_On's post).
Good point!

In regard to all of my previous posts on this subject, Incidents quoted stem from OP Telic 2 during 2003.
 

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