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Dismissals For Failing CDT Tests On The Rise

The current incentive of "you could lose your job isn't working", so perhaps a different incentive is required, or even a more radical change.

As far less people in the Army use drugs than their civilian counterparts Ive suggest its is working.
 
I wasn't allowed a quilt in basic, but at least we weren't on bed blocks.
The argument is based around recruiting and retention as opposed to "because civvies use it".
The current incentive of "you could lose your job isn't working", so perhaps a different incentive is required, or even a more radical change.


Why would we want to retain a junkie scum c*nt?..... and you're failing to acknowledged that some take it to deliberately get found out and discharged .
 
I posted the quote below here, when the idiot forced the amendment to a very good policy due to a sh*t article in the Daily Mail.

I am very happy that the policy has been amended back to what it was. It once again allows commanders to exercise a certain amount of discretion with the very junior soldiers I& they think they are worth the effort.

Tabloids driving policy amendment is Never a good idea :)

In my opinion we had a perfectly adaquate policy on drugs, unfortunately it’s clear very few have ever read it and even less understood it.

The policy involved education and flexibility at one end of the scale to zero tolerance at the other. It allowed us to take people into the army from varying social backgrounds, expose them to our culture and keep those who we saw value in keeping. It also allowed us to discharge those who should have ‘got it’, with the flexibility of re-employing people at a later date if they had matured (rehabilitation of offenders?).

We then had a national rag make things up, senior officers and our most senior politician knee jerk resulting a change to something that was completely fit for purpose and taking away any discretion commanders had.

It will be interesting to see what second and third order consequences this shift in policy brings :)
 
I am very happy that the policy has been amended back to what it was. It once again allows commanders to exercise a certain amount of discretion with the very junior soldiers I& they think they are worth the effort.

Excuse my utter scepticism.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has now removed the policy, suggesting young officers dismissed from the armed forces for taking drugs could be given a second chance.

These words from Ben Wallace suggest to me that he does not give a flying about very junior soldiers and everything to do with Officers getting caught.
 
These words from Ben Wallace suggest to me that he does not give a flying about very junior soldiers and everything to do with Officers getting caught.
I think it is a bit of bad reporting from the Wail. In fact it worries me that you didn’t assume that and actually thought it was BW looking after the Officers. I sense someone as bitter and twisted as me.
 
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Excuse my utter scepticism.
These words from Ben Wallace suggest to me that he does not give a flying about very junior soldiers and everything to do with Officers getting caught.

I read it as bad/lazy journalism, “young officer” is the equivalent of the good old “a senior officer said” when they picked a line from Arrse or FYB.

The criteria that a CO can apply for retention in JSP 835 are quite specific and do not allow for much wiggle room.

I would suggest very few COs would put their reputation on the line by asking to retain a junior officer, anyone who has spent a year at RMAS is in the zero tolerance category.
 
As far less people in the Army use drugs than their civilian counterparts Ive suggest its is working.
Firstly that’s not the ratio that matters there it does tell you where you’re heading for. And secondly and long as we’re using a large sample set it’s the rate of change of ratio that’s worth watching. Also civilian drug use surveys are based on surveys. As I refuse to answer a MOD Survey Monkey about COVID due to a lack of anonymity, I doubt a drug using soldier is going to admit it on a survey either.
 
I read it as bad/lazy journalism, “young officer” is the equivalent of the good old “a senior officer said” when they picked a line from Arrse or FYB.

That is the good thing about having opinions, even when they conflict with other opinions.

Those young Officers, are in some cases, the sons of some VSO's, who most likely will have the ear of the Defence Minister. IMO

Having witnessed enough shenanigans in my time, which were brushed off as high spirits / high jinks, I will stick to my original opinion.
 
Firstly that’s not the ratio that matters there it does tell you where you’re heading for. And secondly and long as we’re using a large sample set it’s the rate of change of ratio that’s worth watching. Also civilian drug use surveys are based on surveys. As I refuse to answer a MOD Survey Monkey about COVID due to a lack of anonymity, I doubt a drug using soldier is going to admit it on a survey either.
If the evidence didnt say what youvwanted would you believe it? You didnt beleive the NHS.
Like i said try talking to your soldiers occasionally.
 
I read it as bad/lazy journalism, “young officer” is the equivalent of the good old “a senior officer said” when they picked a line from Arrse or FYB.

The criteria that a CO can apply for retention in JSP 835 are quite specific and do not allow for much wiggle room.

I would suggest very few COs would put their reputation on the line by asking to retain a junior officer, anyone who has spent a year at RMAS is in the zero tolerance category.
Even if they are a good lad?
 
That is the good thing about having opinions, even when they conflict with other opinions.

Those young Officers, are in some cases, the sons of some VSO's, who most likely will have the ear of the Defence Minister. IMO

Having witnessed enough shenanigans in my time, which were brushed off as high spirits / high jinks, I will stick to my original opinion.

Fill your boots, but having served for the last 38 years from Sapper to Lt Col and having commanded at Section, Troop and Squadron level and having been a Regt and Station 2IC.

I will stick to my intimate knowledge of the current policy and it’s application and not to some possible bad phrasing by a politician or worse quoting by a rubbish journalist ^~
 
That is the good thing about having opinions, even when they conflict with other opinions.

Those young Officers, are in some cases, the sons of some VSO's, who most likely will have the ear of the Defence Minister. IMO

Having witnessed enough shenanigans in my time, which were brushed off as high spirits / high jinks, I will stick to my original opinion.
It sounds like you know something we don't, please elaborate?
 
Whilst a Regular Trooper it was evident that a few, very few were constant users of Whacky Tabacky, Laughing Grass, Boem or whatever you'd like to call it -- these were the few you'd never, ever rely on as back up or having the basic integrity to behave as a true soldier and part of the squadron ---- there was something lacking inside. Being perpetually stoned was Failure Rating as far as the rest of us were concerned.
And isn't that what it is all about?
Can you rely on them? Nope.
If Pvt X cannot not follow the rules in normal circumstance, how will he react when it gets iff and bangy?
By dropping a tab, or rolling a joint?
 
Fill your boots, but having served for the last 38 years from Sapper to Lt Col and having commanded at Section, Troop and Squadron level and having been a Regt and Station 2IC.

How many times in that 38 years did use illegal substances ?

I will stick to my intimate knowledge of the current policy and it’s application and not to some possible bad phrasing by a politician or worse quoting by a rubbish journalist

That is absolutely fine, no problem with that whatsoever.

So I will just throw this into the mix, whether or not it was bad journalism or bad phraseology by a Politician. And you are happy enough with CO's being given the discretion to deal with the issue.

What is the average age of a young Officer 2Lt / Lt - Pl Comd ? 25 or 26 ?

They might be young officers in terms of just starting out their careers. They are certainly not young in terms of age or levels of maturity.

The same applies for Lcpls and above.

If they are mature enough to be given command of troops. They are also mature enough to understand the Army's Drug Policy.

Is one of the remit's of those in the CoC not to ensure that Policy is adhered to ?

A simple example of where I believe your CO's discretion is flawed.

Lcpl XXXXX is REME, posted to Tidworth. His brother Lcpl XXXXX is Infantry, posted to Catterick. They meet up in London for a weekend of drug taking. On return to their respective Barracks, they are caught by the CDT Team.

One is retained, the other hoofed. In this day and age, litigation inbound.
 
...or reaching for a bottle of vodka decanted into a shampoo bottle?

You seem to have the rather shit argument that alcohol can be bad, so why not have drug use.
 
Fill your boots, but having served for the last 38 years from Sapper to Lt Col and having commanded at Section, Troop and Squadron level and having been a Regt and Station 2IC.

I will stick to my intimate knowledge of the current policy and it’s application and not to some possible bad phrasing by a politician or worse quoting by a rubbish journalist ^~

We've all done stuff.
 
You seem to have the rather shit argument that alcohol can be bad, so why not have drug use.
Classic whataboutism from the man Kron.

I've been pissed. And badly stoned.
I know how to handle one, but not the other... which frightened me into giving it up.
Crux of the whole argument -one knows what one is getting when you buy booze, and what effect it will have , in what quantity. And pretty much for how long.*
With dope (or any other narcotic), you don't.

*-which is why morning-after breathalysers catch a lot of people.
 

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