Discussion Scenario 2. Age.

Discussion in 'ACF' started by maninblack, May 5, 2010.

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  1. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    I received a suggestion that age should be discussed.

    Within this there are two questions. These relate to the minimum age for cadets to join and the minimum age for adult instructors.

    I have cloaked the identity of the member who suggested the topic so that he can also join in the discussion.


     
  2. Personaly I feel the minimum age limit should be 13 and the upper limit as 19 as it's a Youth Organisation and 19 is really as far as you can get away with being a youth.

    I think you hit it on the head in regards to becoming an AI though as 20 would be too soon and if you wen't straight from Cadet to AI you would find it hard to adjust from being one of the lads to one of the leaders. So 21 gives you a nice gap to sot yourself out and also finish college an uni commitments.
     
  3. When I joined many moons ago it was the Job of the senior Cadets to instruct and supervise the junior cadets (overseen by the Adults).

    Surely 1* & 2* are about gaining knowledge and 3* & 4* are about leadership and instruction, which can only be gained by looking after and teaching the junior cadets.

    I know it was about 30 years ago when I was a cadet recruit, however have things changed that much that a senior cadet can not get pleasure out of the overseeing the development of Junior cadets.

    As for age 13 – 18 is about right in my opinion.
     
  4. When did it go down to 12? and why?

    Not a wah, it's just I've really only come across CCFs which still start in year 9 ( the old fashioned "move up" year for boys: girls of course are a couple of years more advanced in general at that age - so was 12 a happy medium?)
     
  5. I'm currently a cadet Sjt and would argue that it isn't the age limits that need to be reformed but the syllabus as whole. There is nothing wrong what so ever with joining at 12 as many cadets that I've see have matured quite rapidly and settled in really well. The problem is you tend to get a group of cadets who progress through their APC rather quicklyleaving only the top to be promoted. Those that don't get the rank tend to leave and so that it seems to be the crux of the retention issue.

    I would agree to some extent that us senior cadets get ignored. For example in my detachment we have three adult staff as well as two cadet serjeants which only leaves one or two lessons for the junior NCOs to teach. When we go on field weekends the company's senior NCOs get shafted into the roles of section commanders which thus means that the lance jacks and some of the full screws get completely ignored altogether and so lack any real excitement or challenge.
     
  6. Senior cadets are still frequently used as instructors or assistant DS on training wings and this is one of the strengths of the ACF in my view. But in order for those 3 & 4* cadets to gain promotion they too need development and training, which they are not always getting as County OCs insist on playing the numbers game. Its not all doom and gloom however, but the seniors should be getting more than we give them, because of their loyalty, extra effort and contribution to their coys. Particularly as many of them will be the AIs of the not too distant future too.
     
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  8. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    The reason the age was reduced to 12 and in year 8 was that a child turning 13 during year 8 either had to join without his younger friends or wait for them to turn 13 if he did not want to join alone. Given that kids tend to have friends at school and tend to want to join groups together it make more sense to do it by school year.

    By 18 I think a cadet should want to move on.

    In general I would prefer ex-Cadets to go and do something else (adult service) before becoming CFAV. I would not want to be overly proscriptive about this because there are often good reasons why an ex-cadet cannot go into adult service and I would not want to lose them because of that.
     
  9. Maybe a spelling course would occupy the senior cadets for a while, they might even learn how to spell their own rank.
     
  10. Erm the poster i think you're referring to is probably badged to a Rifle Regiment, they spell it Serjeant.....with a J.
     
  11. Both my older 2 joined as soon as they were old enough, my lad is still in and loves it (despite there being no money to actually DO anything) my daughter left after 2 years (because there was no money to do anything). I didn't think they were too young, they both looked after their own kit from day one, including ironing it. My only issue with the young starting age is keeping up with foot growth and boots!!
     
  12. tee heee.....OWNED...as they would no doubt say :D
     
  13. Well he should try marching slower, then he wouldn't have run out of stuff to do as quickly.

    It's the same old cack. Why should there be anything wrong because many kids leave after a year or two? In all probability they are devoting their time to something more important, like making a success of their education or chasing the opposite sex. Even if there was a problem, then it wouldn't be with circumstances they haven't yet experienced.

    Since most kids won't complete the whole syllabus, put the focus on doing something worthwhile for them while you can, instead of persisting with the fantasy that something has gone wrong if they don't have to be forced out of the door at 18 'n 9 months with a brassard full of badges.

    The same sort of misplaced focus is suggested for adults all too often. If they were my kids I'd prefer that the organisation consider a little more than their dates of birth when selected its staff. If a lack of AI's is responsible for a lack of cadet retention then why would you exclude what may be a perfectly good candidate?
     
  14. Year 8 or so I thought was the min criteria, if people are using 12, then yes it's too young and are likely to be in year 7 and still in the run round mode.

    Joining in year 8 means being a cadet for nearly a year before going to camp and completed a few weekends.

    They should leave the cadets on their 18th birthday as they are now adults. 18 year old CFAVI is a bad idea, thus avoiding the 19 year old Sgts.

    CFAV joining age, 21 is a good one, leaving age is a bit... well... depends on your role. A 60 year old Detachment commander hmmm but then a grossly overweight one at 40, well.... all subjective and maybe where merit comes in...
     
  15. I think the CFAV joining age should be boosted to 19, merely to ensure a 'thinking gap' between cadets leaving the ACF as cadets and re-joining as adults, rather than merely appearing to 'transfer'.

    I think moreso, there should be a stricter interviewing process for new CFAVs, particularly young ones. I don't think age is a just measurements to somebody's suitability to be an AI, I've met plenty of U21 AIs that are far more responsible and suitable for the job than some of their over-21 counterparts. I think, basically, Commandants should look at an individuals background, and decide what effect, good or bad, that background wil have on their CFAV service.

    I don't think the 12 YO argument is a valid one, am I right in thinking it's 12 Y.O AND in year 8? If so, once kids start at school, they generally mature at the same rate regardless of whether their birthday is in the September or the July, and thus letting kids join the ACF by school year, as opposed to by age, is a good plan.