Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by Technos, Nov 24, 2003.

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  1. The Sgts Mess Presiding Member (RSM 7 Signal Regiment) is discriminating against partners who are serving by not allowing partners who are not of mess status themselves to attend functions.

    If you go down town and pick up a street tramp she is entitled to attend the mess as your partner, doesn’t matter how long you have known each other or how you feel about each other or if she has any idea of mess etiquette or decency.

    Due to the amount and frequency of Operational tours, which is well known to destroy marriages, who else are the single Seniors supposed to meet and fall in love with? While serving in Germany or other foreign parts soldiers are bound to find themselves becoming attracted to one another. Amazingly this can be dealt with on a professional basis at work, the couples involved would never allow the fact that they are seeing each other to change the way they deal with rank issues.

    A partner of a mess member is a partner of a mess member, nothing more she/he does not hold any rank or seniority in the mess in their own right, she/he is the partner of a mess member! How/Why can a partner of a mess member who also happens to be in the Armed Forces be classed as less of a partner?

    Surely the next logical step is to ban all partners that are employed in jobs of a Junior position, first to go will have to be those employed in Junior Rank jobs within the military. The girls from the Accounts and petrol coupon office, they are doing LCpl jobs. The BFG ladies, jobs normally done by a Cpl. Clerical assistants in the Admin Office, Cpl. Why should we stop there, anyone employed in the NAAFI, shop assistant or cleaning job surely can not be classed as higher than a Cpl, so the girls from the PRI are out. How about the unemployed, they can surely not be classed as senior to those in employment otherwise no one would ever get a job as it lowers your standard in life. Who is left?

    If a partner according to the Presiding Member has to justify her position in the mess in her own right why not have it as a members only and not allow any guests at all.

    In April 2004 the RSM of 16 Signal Regiment is supposed to takes over as presiding member of Elmpt Station Sgts Mess, lets all hope that he is strong enough to deal with these out dated discriminatory ways, lets look forward not back at the past ways all the time.

    Be interested in hearing any one elses views on this subject, I know there are several couples in the Sgts Mess effected by this daft decision.
  2. Awww! gee sir, can i join this site just so i can winge?

    normally means I don't agree with who said/does what? Have you mentioned anything about this in a mess meeting?
    Get on with it, if not hand your rank in and go to the Naafi or downtown.
  3. This is a difficult conundrum which is faced by all RSMs and generally dealt with in the same fashion in my experience. Non serving wives and partners are normally welcome as guests. Serving wives of non Mess status are usually allowed to attend the main functions of the year (Xmas/Summer Ball).

    I think it would be unrealistic to expect much beyond these rough guidelines. Let's remember that with all the forward thinking in the world the Sgts' Mess remains unique in its enviable status as a club where all members are there by right. Tradition is a large part of military life and the more we chip away at it the more we will become a weak, homogenised Army like the Americans.

    Though this may sound victorian, marriage still indicates a strong commitment and just because the reality of modern civilian life is that people are more likely to enter into long-term relationships than marriages does not mean that the Army or its instituitons has to follow this or any other trend. This is why those JNCOs who are wives rather than partners normally gain limited access.

    If you would like to see more JNCOs in the Mess then I assume the hardwork it took you to cross that doorstep means precious little and I suggest -with no offense intended - that you meet and socialise with your partner in a place where you both feel more comfortable (All Ranks Bar, NAAFI?).
  4. Since when have we become a democracy? The WO's & Sgt's Mess is rightly judged to be one of a unit's main strengths. As previous contributors have stated - it is the repository of many traditions and customs which reflect the Army's unique status amongst the rest of the dross (apparently the society we draw from). Dilute it with your 'modern' or 'forward thinking' philosophies at your peril.
  5. What a total load of CR*P, grow up you cannot even write it correctly its the Warrant Officers and Sargeants Mess............. now there are reasons why your partner cannot enter the mess and well you know them, I am not going to waste my time explaining them because if you do not know them hand in yer stripes or badge (if your one of these new look at me straight to WO2 lot.

    When I was still serving back in the glory days and I was a mere L/cpl Mrs Tigger who is far more intelligent than I am and has vastly superior credentials had officer mess status of Maj............. do you think I was allowed in there not on your life I wasnt, did she winge and complain no she didnt , was i bothered no I wasnt ............ and yes she did attend certain functions without me had to . ......................

    It would be wrong to allow all wifes/partners who are not of mess status into the mess for bloody obvious reasons.
  6. I favor the ideas mentioned by Snarley, serving wives/husbands of Junior Rank can attend the main functions but i would also add family days into that. If we had a family bbq in the Mess and didnt invite a serving spouse, it would be discriminatory in my oppinion.

    Beyond that, what other access do you want for your wife? While i feel the Mess sometimes does need to modernise its way of doing business, there are hundreds of years of tradition here which we have to protect. One of the main traditions there is that it is the Badge who runs the Mess, and we all have the opportunity to object to Mess rules. If you disagree with something, put your flipper in the air, or have a chat with the PMC for advice on how to voice your complaint.

    For me, membership of the Mess was a goal in my carear, and i have a sense of pride in the fact that i achieved that goal. I mean no offence to you Technos, but if you dont feel comfortable with the Mess and its rules, your more than welcome to do the bare minimum and do your drinking in the Wall and Willow.
  7. Obviously I do not expect a serving partner who is not of mess status to be able to attend the mess on her own (no partner should, they are only guests) or indeed just for a casual drink. I do expect a partner to be able to attend any function that is put on where Mess members can bring guests.

    It took me 12 years to reach the mess which I am very proud of and since that time I have always supported the Mess to the utmost. Why should that have to change because I have a partner who is not of mess status, they aren't asking to join the Mess just be allowed to attend in support of their partner.

    All other messes that I have belonged to have allowed serving partners to attend (each case taken on a case by case basis) as Guests to organised functions, which is all I ask.
  8. They are going through this at the Regiment i am with (TA) and it opened up a whole new kettle of fish, until such time as the RSM pulled the plug completely.

    He would allow serving TA SNCO's to take their serving JNCO wives/partners on a case by case scenario, but wouldnt allow any of the Regular SNCO's to take serving JNCO's (i.e. TA) with them as guests, as soon as he found out that some of the PSI's (who are single) were actually seeing JNCO's from the Regiment on a more personal basis he pulled the plug on it all.

    What struck me as strange is that a TA SNCO can be married or seeing a TA JNCO, but as soon as a Regular SNCO does it at a TA unit they call for them to be sacked :D

    (awaiting eagerly on the CO's new new new directive on it all :D )
  9. I think someone on another thread was talking about Victorian Values within the modern army. Maybe this also pays a part of how the army is viewed by Joe/Josephine Public and it's potential recruiting base. With society becoming less class conscious and more open at all levels the army’s' restrictive and artificially created 'class' barriers are viewed in quite a negative light by potential recruits who are used to more access to things which go on around them.
    Don't get me wrong, WO's and SGT's messes are essential, but I think many elements of current army life should receive an overhaul.
  10. Oh purleeese. The whole idea is to drag these critters kicking and screaming up to our standards - not sink to theirs. There are plenty of people out there (and I'm one of them) who are grateful for the discipline / training / standards etc inculcated into me during my army career. At the time I didn't actually LIKE it that much - and I could be as rabid as the next man. But we still have an organisation that is liked and respected by most of your Joe public (and try applying that maxim to any of the other professions) because of our values. We don't actually want the dross who can't follow a few simple rules and subdjugate the needs of the individual to the needs of the many.
  11. I think you should rephrase that to '..the needs of the few'. Any mess is a club, nothing more, nothing less. Here in civ div there are organisations whose clubs think they are just as 'elite' as an army mess. But do not discriminate as the army do. As I said in my earlier post many people who are mess members have usually served for quite some time (I will not include officers messes in this argument as they only entry qualification is to be an officer, even with almost zero time served) and have quite narrow views about how things should be conducted. How can you tell a SSGT who's wife is a 15 year CPL that she is worth (in your eyes) nothing compared to the 20 year old girl that someone got up the duff?
    I am not talking about you becoming civvies, only that it would be in the army’s best interests to modernise slightly, as gone are they days when a wife’s place was in the kitchen and fawning to her husbands every word. As for many people who may read this post I will give you a few words of advice. When you become a civvy again, you will find that the world has changed beyond all recognition, and before you leave you should change your outlook, as the jobs you want to do will be beyond your reach.
  12. You miss my point. It's not mess members I refer to - but those who have joined the Army and, by and large, accept it for what it is.

    Please don't patronise me with your trite civvie views. (I note from another post that you claim to be one and - shock horror - in the 'education business') I have done time in civvie street, I have also studied alongside civvies subsequently. Fortunately most of them have, shall we say, more a educated and informed position. You clearly don't understand our business and your ignorance shines through for all to see.

    ....yes, a long way downwards. We tend to look up.
  13. I did 13 years. I'm entitled to my view.
  14. Since when does the Army (particularly the WO's and SGTS mess) take direction or be swayed by joe/josephine public's opinion?

    Do they give a to** about the army?
    I dont think so. not the majority anymore or I wouldnt be reading about so many proplems that now appear to be common place.

  15. That would be a whole 13 years would it,!!!!!!!!!! 8O