Discharge under PAP 10

Discussion in 'Military Discipline' started by max8031, Dec 1, 2010.

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  1. I have recently discharged from the army under the new PAP 10. I served 18 years in the army and was diagnosed with diabetes in 2005. Here is the story goes.

    When i was diagnosed with diabetes i went to the MO and aksed if i would now be placed on a medical dischage because of it and was told that as long as i kept it under control i would be ok and was downgraded to P7. On the whole i did this. in 2009 there was a roumer going around that the CO wanted to get rid of downgraded soldiers. The OC called all of the downgraded in for interviews. I was told that because i had passed all my manning control points that i could stay until my time was up and the CO was happy for me to do this. i must also add that my job was the Bn Post Orderly and i was given Veng.

    as you all know in Febuary 2010 the army brought out the new PAP 10 the CO called all downgraded into the cinema and we were all told about how this system would work. We were told that because it was a new system it would take a while to be put in place. On 12th March i was called into the MO's office and was told that i was being concidered for medical discharge because my grading had now been changed to "Medical Non Deployable" (MND). I was given paperwork which my CO, OC and RCMO had to fill outand at the same time my medical docs were sent to occupational health. I was then told to start doing resettlement incase i did get discharged which in itself was a balls ache. Because i did not know when i was getting out and no one could confirm it for me i could not book any courses till i knew what was happening. all the paperwork had been completed and i was called into the MO's office again and was told that Occupational health had confirmed my grading and that my notes will now be sent to APC Glasgow. It was well into May and i still did not know what was happening even after asking my OC and the MO if anything had been decided.

    Under PAP 10 one of the things they try and do is find alternative employment and as i said before i worked in the unit post room in germany. Not a hard job but a job that i was doing well as my confidetial reports have shown and the feedback i was getting. this was a non deployable job because the mail still had to be delivered even though the troops are deployed.

    On 14th June i was called in to the OC's Office and was told that i would be given an administrative discharge in medical grounds under QR 9.385. Two days lter I recieved a letter from APC Glasgow stating that my dischagre date was the 28th September 2010 which took into account 35 days GRT 20 worlikng days invaliding leave and 20 days terminasl leave.

    So why am i writing this well after doing some digging i have found a few things out since i left. After getting a copy of my med docs there was a copy of the forms that were completed by the CO, OC and RCMO which stated that all options have been explored and that no employment can be found within the Bn or within the regiment also under the heading recomendation for tranfer to another Corps or regiment none was put as the answer.

    now the CO had overal decision if i could stay but when i went to see him he told me that the decision got taken out of his hands and that he was sorry that i was leaving. Now the strange thing was that i had a copy of the CO's Career Managment Directive 2010 stating that all MND soldiers are to have discharge action initiated with exception of SNCO's. soldiers who are discharged must be mentored carefully through this process and given maximum possible notice. Now here is the kicker, however the aim is for all these soldiers to be discharged no later than sept 10.

    Now i know that there were 23 soldiers who could not deply within my Bn, and yet only two people got discharged. I had a job that i could do and was doing it well but was still discharged i have now found out that the new CO is offering the job that i was doing to downgraded soldier that cannot deploy.

    but the big kick in the teeth is that SPVA has decided that even though i was out on a medical discharge that i will not be getting a medical pension beacuase diabetes was not attributable to the army and it did not get any worse while i was in the army. now correct me if am wrong but for diabetes to go wrong i must not keep it under control which begs the question why did i get a medical discharge.

    One thing i would like to know if there anre ant diabetics still serving in the army and what job they are doing
    • Like Like x 2
  2. This may sound harsh, but you weren't capable of doing the job you get paid for. You're a professional soldier, and you aren't capable of deploying, and never will be. The army isn't a charity, it didn't break you, it doesn't need to keep you. The same way any other organisation would look to sack you.

    Oh and about the role you do being non deployable, then surely it's a lot cheaper to have a civvy do it? Or save that post to give lads a break from the tour cycle?

    Yes there are diabetics, there are fatty's and there are loads of other wasters, unfortunately, their CO's are too spineless to get rid of them.

    As for a medical pension, i'd be ******* fuming as a tax payer if you recieved one. You weren't injured through work, you were injured by bad diet/genetics/god hating you, either way, it's not the armys problem.
  3. ok so you think i am a waster fine thats ur opinion but i was given the job way before i got diabetes and was still able to do my job the only reason why i can not deploy is because according to the MO they could not garentee getting my medication in theatre. if u are classing me as a waster what about the other 23 people who aer on the same grading and the fact that the job i was doing is offered to people with the same grading as me.

    so are you saying that if you got cancer or any other illness you would fully expect the army to kick you out

    as for the medical pension i am a tax payer so surley i should get what i am owed. i understand that i was injured in iraq or afghan but why give me a MEDICAL DISCHARGE and then say no to the medical pension
  4. Get a solicitor involved. Sounds like you have a case under "constructive dismissal" since the same post you were in has been offered to another downgraded soldier.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 1. Yes the other 23 wasters should be kicked out. If they are never going to get any better, and they can't deploy fully, and the army didn't break them. (That last bit is an important detail)

    2. If I got cancer, and I was never going to recover, then yes, the army would be within it's rights to **** me right off. If it looked like I'd make a full recovery, then it would keep me as it has invested a few quid in training me up.

    3. You are owed the pension for the years you have served, you aren't owed any ******* money for being a chubber. The army didn't cause your diabetes, you can now no longer deploy, so it doesn't want to pay you a wage. What part of that is confusing?

    4. My heroin addiction is an illness, the army didn't cause it, but can I have a full a medical pension because it can't provide me with methadone while in a FOB?
  6. similar thing happened to me in 2004, i got the heave ho after i lost my left eye. could not get a straight answer to any of my questions or anything like that. after i got out i got a copy of my parerwork and it was a bag of shite. lots of stuff not filled out properly. even said something about not being able to fire a rifle (dont we close our left eyes anyway???) i get the shitty old war pension for it now. funny thing is that now im a cadet instructor and am doing alot of the same things, shooting, excersizes etc and it has never been an issue for me.
    i was taking it further because i didnt want kicked out, i even got promoted before i got binned so it never made sense. the army must have known they made a mistake because they settled before it went that far. hope you get some answers mate.
  7. ok so because i am diabetic you think that i am fat there are lots of diabetics like Sir Steven Redgrave that are still fit so maybe you should get your facts straight first
  8. read his post properly he is not saying YOU are fat, he is saying there are fatties/wasters etc
  9. Can you please explain?
  10. Reading your post, if you have been diabetic since 2005 you have not been able to have done your real job for 5 years and if you had been allowed to stay in that would be 9 years by the end off your 22.
    You have been in 18 years and were the Bn Post Orderly which is normally a Lcpl position (Cpl at the highest).
    Your illness has nothing to do with the army.
    Maybe thats why they want you out.
    I think you have been lucky to get 5 years of wages out of the army for doing a very easy job in the post bunk. Usually no deployment, no exercises, no duty and if downgraded normally no PT.
  11. Diabetics will never be fully deployable. If they are on insulin that requires a fridge - not found in FOBs (or if it is the electricity is unreliable). All diabetics require a careful diet and a regular routine (not found on operations). Even if they are not on insulin but on Metformin they have to be careful with hydration status, renal stones, D&V etc, all of which are found in increased numbers on tour. In short Diabetes is a barrier to deployment and as such you are not meeting the spec of an infantry soldier, i.e. patrol and fight.

    Yes it is a kicker having to leave, maybe it could have been handled better, but the result is the same. At least you got a few more years pensionable service under your belt before you had to leave.
  12. ref the soldier who took over from you being medicaly downgraded as well, you will probaly findout that he is MND Temp while you are MND perm. MND Temp soldiers are not involved in the PAP 10 RECU process.
  13. I know a WO2 who is diabetic.

    The last time I saw him was on Op's, when he woke me up in the APOD when I'd just got to kip after being on the go for 28 hours straight. :sad:

    In my haste to tell him to f*ck off I forgot to ask how he happened to be deployed?
  14. I was diagnosed Type 1 diabetic back in 2003 at my 20 year point in the RAF, they had the decency to keep me on for two years so could get the pension - I'm sorry your lot were a bunch of ***** Max and didn't do the same. For those having a go see what it's like when you've been around for a while, done everything asked, through no fault of your own go 'special needs' and you're booted out - loyalty is supposed to be a two way street
  15. Has Johnson Beharry VC been kicked out of the Army then, or is he still serving?