Disband the BTP?

Do we need the BTP?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 72.5%
  • No

    Votes: 14 27.5%

  • Total voters
    51
#2
Create a Communications force... Big Brother come on

Borders and Communications - add Motorways and arm them all.

OR

Sensible idea

Just expand the moDefence police and get them to defend our borders... Money saver there.
 
#3
why is this your opinion? I think we need BTP because it is a specialised (national) area. Do you think this is another area could be in the NCA next year?
 
#4
There is a minimum standard for police officers.
There are plenty of throbing bellends with power envy and a well deserved sense of inadequacy that will never attain that minimum standard.
They are forced to do the boring meanial jobs that real police think are beneath them, like transport police, MOD Plod and Royal parks wombles.
It's a bit like real soldiers thinking that guarding the NAAFI is a wast of time and leaving it to the RAF Regt.

I hope this explains it for you.
 
#5
BTP is largely funded by the rail companies. BTP officers are trained to be able to operate safely on the railway which is not as straightforward as you might think. If you split them up between different forces each force would need to manage a pool of specialist rail trained personnel.

Cancelling the Olympics would save rather more money. Leaving the EU would save more than that. Deporting all foreign nationals who aren't in full time employment would be a good one. BTP is a drop in the ocean.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
Q. How many Police Forces operate in Liverpool?

A. Five.

i) Merseyside Police
ii) Port of Liverpool Police
iii) Mersey Tunnels Police
iv) British Transport Police
v) MoD Police

Each with a specific remit, and in some cases specific expertise and juristictional responsibilities.

If you want to pick fight with the bizzies.....

Edit to add the Civil Nuclear Constabulary put in an appearance in Scouseland from time to time too.
 
#7
Next you'll be saying why do we need the CNC ?

BTP, CNC, MDP COLP, what next?

Personally the transport network is not their only remit, they also assist the Met when required.
 
#8
There is a minimum standard for police officers.
There are plenty of throbing bellends with power envy and a well deserved sense of inadequacy that will never attain that minimum standard.
They are forced to do the boring meanial jobs that real police think are beneath them, like transport police, MOD Plod and Royal parks wombles.
It's a bit like real soldiers thinking that guarding the NAAFI is a wast of time and leaving it to the RAF Regt.

I hope this explains it for you.
The Riots last year proved that many of them somehow manged to join and serve with the police force...:roll:
 
#9
The job they do can not be done by regular forces.

They deal with a huge moving population of people and often have to intercept people at stations, getting plod to fill that funtion when distances involved can be many counties is not possible.
 
#10
British Transport Police!!?? nope, never EVER seen one, if in fact they exist, I did actually see a Cheshire Policeman a few days ago, walking for goodness sake and on his own, I thought maybe the poor chap was lost, but I couldn,t bring myself to offer any help.
 
#12
It would be impractical for regular home office plod to do railways full time as constantly crossing force lines would be an admin clusterfuck.

Authority has to be granted each time plod leaves juristictions and enters new ones.

BTP rely on Home Office and other forces for firearms although I heard that BTP are now training their own.

Policing in this country is so outdated in structure as transport has come on a long way since the Bow St runners.

One single national force may be the way to go negating the problem of authority and juristiction.

At least we dont have a law enforcement system like the yanks. That IS a mess!!! Jusk wiki 'list of US law enforcement agencies' and hope your computer doesn't run out of RAM trying to display the page.
 
#13
.

Authority has to be granted each time plod leaves juristictions and enters new ones.
No it doesn't. It's just courtesy to let the other farce know if you're operating in their area and to let your own force know if you're out of your area.

Police officers in england and wales can exercise their powers anywhere in England and wales.




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#14
The_Seagull:4422027 said:
.

Authority has to be granted each time plod leaves juristictions and enters new ones.
No it doesn't. It's just courtesy to let the other farce know if you're operating in their area and to let your own force know if you're out of your area.

Police officers in england and wales can exercise their powers anywhere in England and wales.




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So your trying to say that nothing would be said if another force came and dagged you out of bed with a full blown muftie squad and carted you off to their own area.

An attested constable, even non home office, can exercise their powers anywhere with good reason.

That does not give carte blance to roam and do as they please on a routine basis.

Eg.
Off duty plod witnessing a violent assault or a motorway pursuit crossing borders, additional man power requests etc....
 
#15
So your trying to say that nothing would be said if another force came and dagged you out of bed with a full blown muftie squad and carted you off to their own area.

An attested constable, even non home office, can exercise their powers anywhere with good reason.

That does not give carte blance to roam and do as they please on a routine basis.

Eg.
Off duty plod witnessing a violent assault or a motorway pursuit crossing borders, additional man power requests etc....
Like I said, it's courtesy, and usually protocol to inform the other force area you're operating in that you're doing so. What I was getting at was that there's no actual authority required to do so though, I believe, there are different protocols if armed officers are doing so.

You'd have to define mufti squad for me, if you mean a firearms team then you'd probably need to pre plan it with the other force. If it's just a few blokes from CID or uniform popping in to arrest someone, probably not.

I'm not trying to be a dink, but that's pretty much how it works mate.


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sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Given the age of austerity we are in, do we really need the British Transport Police?

It seems they are nothing more than police officers on rail networks only. The job they do, can be done by regular police officers.

bin caught without a ticket again have we ?
 
#17
Your half right but the devil is in the detail.

Having been passenger in the front of a patrol car crossing powys and herefordshire numerous times in one journey it was explained to me quite clearly.

Just passing through used to require clearance from a senior officer each and every time from both forces. This was a PITA understandably and hence got knocked on the head. What happens now is control of your own force is informed. No authoroty required.

If while passing through you come accross something that needs urgent attention then you crack on and control deals with formalities during/ after depending on circs.

In the case of pursuit etc.. You crack on as formalities WILL be granted.

Pre planned operations cant be carried out unless authorised.
Thats everything from a major bust to single officer picking up a bail warrant. These will usually be done by respective force and handed over.

Units that will routinely expect to leave force area such as motorway or serious crime squads will have pre-approval in standing orders.

It all depends on circs.
 
#18
Like I said, it's courtesy, and usually protocol to inform the other force area you're operating in that you're doing so. What I was getting at was that there's no actual authority required to do so though, I believe, there are different protocols if armed officers are doing so.

You'd have to define mufti squad for me, if you mean a firearms team then you'd probably need to pre plan it with the other force. If it's just a few blokes from CID or uniform popping in to arrest someone, probably not.

I'm not trying to be a dink, but that's pretty much how it works mate.


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Its less formal than it used to be. When I was first in, pre-Army, going to another county in a marked vehicle or on a CID job required the visiting officer to inform either the force HQ or the Divisional HQ of the Force to be visited. There it would get passed up the chain of command, normally to the Divisional Duty Commander who may or may not have asked for further information.

Nowdays, based on my personal experience, you just call through to the Divisional HQ control room or the local nick and tell them who you are, where you are going, why and who you are visiting - and they mark you on the board along with your contact number. This is normally only done for enquiries visits, if it is an arrest visit the home team force would normally take care of the arrest. Added to which, if its anything like the area I was in where there was a higgly piggly county border and you could spend half your shift driving through the neighbouring forces area on the way to and from calls in your own area - it was accepted and you just did it.

In the case of "Speshul Teams", "doing the business, guv, and turning over some toe rags drum" - well there are seperate channels of communications for those types of chappies. As they are generally regional teams and have cross force boundary remits and as they are made up of members from all the forces in their region they have no problems and just need to make a quick phone call.

I think a lot of it depends on the region you are in and the relationsips that the forces in the region have with each other. Locally, my nick was only a few miles away from the nick of the force in the neighbouring county so we used to get together socially regularly and there were a lot of long time acquaintances and contacts - which cuts back on admin bs.

As for the sterling chaps in the BTP: I knew more than a few, they are good at what they do which is a damn sight more than just catching fare dodgers. Their training is more or less twice as long as an ordinary plods and they can end up in docks, airports and railways stations. I was told some very interesting stories about Southampton docks and collaborative work of the BTP and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ooooh black helicopters, I better say no more.

Lets just say that they can have a more interesting career than the MOD Police. ;)
 
#19
It all depends on circs.
That one sentence probably sums it up nicely.

Back on topic, I believe that BTP is funded primarily by the rail companies and have considerable expertise in operating in that environment.

In that case, I would say that they're a useful resource to keep.



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#20
BTP receive no public funding. They are paid for by rail companies which is a bone of contention in itself.

How can you expect them to investigate their employers impartially?
I'm not implying that they are anything other than professional but there has been issues in the past.

Likewise with disbanding them. You just cant have officers spread all over the country from different forces jumping on and off trains or driving to and from stations all over the shop.

Single force. Thats EVERY constable. Obviously trained and posted as required in their particular duties.

It will be a big job but not as big as one would expect.

The system is already largely there and all thats really neaded is a 're-branding' exercise but it would cut a lot of red tape.
 

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