Direct entry as a J.N.C.O.

Discussion in 'Officers' started by track_rash, Mar 29, 2009.

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  1. I have tried the search function but it's not giving me the information that I am after. I am trying to find information on Direct entry as a serving JNCO. I know it does happen but not sure of the ins and outs, at this stage its just a thought so I dont want to start pestering my CoC.

    My primary questions are:

    1. Have any of you done this, or been through Sandhurst with someone who has?

    2. In your opinions, do soldiers who go for this option tend to do well, or struggle to think of the bigger picture/think too much as a soldier rather than as an officer?

    3. How does pay and seniority work? I have heard that seniority is adjusted, taking into account non commissioned service, but does pay reflect this, bearing in mind that a non grad cadet's pay will be less than my current pay.

    Thank you in advance.

  2. Speak to T.F.R (PM him).
  3. If you are even considering it speak to the chain of command even casually because it is such a long process that the sooner you get a steer in preparation the better it will be for you in the long run.

    You will have to go through battalion, brigade and regimental filters prior to even attending Pre RCB (or what ever it is called now AOSB?)

    Coming from the ranks there is a good chance you may get on a PODC at worthy down which is highly recommended (but again is another three or four months) prior to attending the main board.

    so chat with someone you trust who will drive your application if you do decide to go for it, I had one guy who had been making noises about this process for two and a half years prior to me meeting him (he could have been in and out of sandhurst in that time but no one drove his application) The flash to bang from me pushing it forward was around twelve months (to the factory door including PODC)

    every one has their strengths and weakness' as an ex soldier you will take time to cut your teeth as a strategic thinker however by the time you are in a position to prove your self in that department you will be ready, and it is not beyond any soldier who is worth their salt.

    Seniority equates to half of your fulltime service over the age of 18, this will count towards career progression, but in terms of pay, you will not get a pay cut, however you will not get a pay rise (other than annual increments) until your pay in commissioned rank has overtaken that of your previously held junior rank. (as while at sandhurst you still (on paper) hold your non commissioned rank and pay though you will sign to forfeit all authority your current rank holds)
  4. My Red.
  5. Your experience as a Soldier can help - once you get to Sandhurst and after commissioning.

    Getting to Sandhurst can be the long winded part - get your Troop comd to give you the nod, then the CO has to recommend you - he will "watch" you to assess your potential (or should) and obviously, if you meet the requirements you then attend the Pre-AOSB. You will or may do the PODC (development course for soldiers wanting to become officers) and may attend educational booster courses - it depends on your qualifications and personality, capability etc.

    I have known ex-rankers through Sandhurst and there is nearly always one at the Regiments I have served with. they are jokingly referred to as LEs and joking have it pointed out to them that they have chips on their shoulders (and sometimes can, but then so can anyone) about the fact that although they are only a 3 year Officer, they have actually served 10 years or whatever. this gets really boring, especially if they start to bang on about previous service all the time in a seniority context.

    To a man, the ex-rankers I have known were no different to the other Officers if you took an imaginary "average composite" - they had some depth in certain areas that I and other peers may not have, but they also knew that they may not be the best at other things - same as in any team.
  6. Thank you for these replies, I am far from making a decision at this stage but all this info is certainly a big help.
  7. I commissioned after 3 years as a soldier and although i didn't join with the intention of commissioning later, with hindsight I personally wouldn't have had it any other way. I had some growing up to do and i doubt whether i was really ready to go through RMAS when i first joined the Army.

    I also did the POD course at Worthy Down which was awesome and a real eye opener; realistically a 'must do'.

    I don't know across the board whether time spent as a soldier makes someone a better officer but in my case, I think so. The early days at RMAS were a little easier as the basic mil skills were there taking a bit of pressure off (but bear in mind that many OCdts come with OTC and other mil experience) but by the end, there's no real difference.

    I won't mention pay as TFR's covered it.

    My advice would be to go for it - don't allow yourself the 'what if' question later. But, as you're application goes through, remember you're not there yet and don't cut your ties - most of your muckers will be support you but only if you're not a c*ck. I've got a female Pte in my Sqn currently who's done just that and she's alienated a lot of her friends.
  8. Whats the chances of a sgt doing that?
  9. Same as a JNCO or Private... as long as you're not too old.

    I think(!) the upper age limit is 30. But may be wrong.

    Just bear in mind, that after two years if your pay hasn't caught up your initial pay, you drop down. Pretty sure of that anyway.

    So in a Sgts case it is almost definitely the case you will take a wage cut, before catching up again.
  10. I'm not sure that's right. I might be wrong so you must check but i was under the impression that you didn't drop salary but marked time until, you caught up. Also, i think the commission age limit is 29.

    I would always encourage someone to go for it if they are thinking about it.
  11. A Special Pen Service Operative may be able to answer that, but I was under the impression you only mark time for a certain amount of time before dropping to the amount you would otherwise be on....

    In the case of a Sgt commisioning, they would not move increments during RMAS (as they mark time from the start of the course - same as a few other courses).

    But it could take them more than a few years to catch up to the Sgts wage (esp a higher band trade).

    A higher band Sgt level 1, earns more than a Lvl 10 Lt.
  12. If pay is an issue (in any way) your motives are flawed.
  13. Yeah, no one should care about the possible financial drawbacks to a career change, and the bank manager will surely get behind you when, after he has called you in to discuss your financial melt down and lack of mortage payments, you tell him "If pay is an issue my motives would be flawed".....

    :roll: :roll: :roll:

    Oh, by the by, a mate of mine retraded to rupert (doing well), he also had a wife and newly born child to think of. His wife had to give up her job to allow the move too.

    But I am sure, he should have just thought... fcuk it. I'll just go for it. My family will be ok on a literal pay cut of some £30,000, and perhaps no chance to increase the income for some years....

    You fcuking imbecile.
  14. In an ideal world this would be true. But in the real world what a stupid comment.
  15. I am afraid you all seem to miss the point. Of course being paid is important and for all the blindingly obvious reasons trotted out above, no-one sensible enough to consider taking a Commission would do so without researching fully the financial implication.

    However being an Officer is not about pay. If it were many good young Lt Cols would leave and be snapped up by Industry. The Motto of RMAS is Serve to Lead and any aspirant Officer should realise that from the outset, or become a politician where money really matters.

    edited (as I wasn't paid for the comment!)