Dimensioned drawing of No.5 flash suppressor / bayonet lug

#21
I’ve been there and to the NFC. I’m not sure whether the Royal Armouries would be the place to ask for drawings of dimensions for a No 5 Rifle bayonet lug dimensions but the NFC would be. The NFC is located opposite the Royal Armouries.

As an aside, the flash eliminator is a component part of a firearm.
As is the seer, release catch, gas plug, rod and spring, exc, I know, (2428****.)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#22
As an aside, the flash eliminator is a component part of a firearm.
In the UK it is and a flash eliminator is licensable, the drawing isn't and as the drawing will be going to Switzerland where ex soldiers take home their rifles I'm sure a piece of paper wont be a problem.
The funny thing is if you make a cone shaped flash hider and put holes in the cone it ceases to be a flash hider and becomes a muzzle break and is exempt the rules on component parts isn't it?
 
#23
In the UK it is and a flash eliminator is licensable, the drawing isn't and as the drawing will be going to Switzerland where ex soldiers take home their rifles I'm sure a piece of paper wont be a problem.
I know, it’s more to do with ‘offers of help’
The funny thing is if you make a cone shaped flash hider and put holes in the cone it ceases to be a flash hider and becomes a muzzle break and is exempt the rules on component parts isn't it?
:) a compensator, like on the Thompson. So long as it’s not ‘designed to diminish the noise or flash.’
 
#24
As is the seer, release catch, gas plug, rod and spring, exc, I know, (2428****.)
It’s pretty much ‘pressure bearing parts’ So the spring is okay (it’s a spring). Release catch? Do you mean the ‘hold open device’?
 
Last edited:
#25
It’s pretty much ‘pressure bearing parts’ So the spring is okay (it’s a spring). Release catch? Do you mean the ‘hold open device’?[/QUO

The release catch that allows you to break, and withdraw the working parts, , pin block and slide. (7.62 SLR) AND the " cock hook and look" release catch. END
 
#26
The release catch that allows you to break, and withdraw the working parts, , pin block and slide. (7.62 SLR) AND the " cock hook and look" release catch. END
Roger, neither are pressure bearing and wouldn’t be component parts any more than the carrying handle is.

E2A to change competent to component :)
 
Last edited:

ugly

LE
Moderator
#27
Roger, neither are pressure bearing and wouldn’t be competent parts any more than the carrying handle is
Otherwise those SLR Butt cribbage boards would all need to be confiscated.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#29
#31
I've heard the opposite, the rings are slightly larger but the internet disagrees with me. I suspect the tales were to stop troops signing out the wooden handled ones instead of the black pattern.
Who knows with arms cote men being odd as they are!
I think I only saw SMG bayonets with wooden grips; I've got a vague recollection of seeing a WW2-era date on one. I'm too old to be sure.
The Sterling SMG boss was 7/8" (22.4mm) OD & there was 3" (77mm) from the front of the boss to the front of the bayonet lug. Anyone with a No 5 who'd like to measure it?
 
#32
I think I only saw SMG bayonets with wooden grips; I've got a vague recollection of seeing a WW2-era date on one. I'm too old to be sure.
The Sterling SMG boss was 7/8" (22.4mm) OD & there was 3" (77mm) from the front of the boss to the front of the bayonet lug. Anyone with a No 5 who'd like to measure it?

The SMG and No5 bayonets were indeed one and the same item, reissued. Most SMG bayonets were 1944/5 dated, and most "Poole" or "P" makers stamp. I think there were also quite a few newer post-war bayonets purchased from Sterling to top up numbers, as they hadn't reckoned on the No5 staying on in service with Commonwealth units in such numbers.

One of the likely reasons for the scarcity of No5/SMG bayonets on the surplus market (and their subsequent high price) is that most of them were probably sold to India together with the SMGs.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#33
#34
I have one of each I believe
Sterlings made, or bought in, bayonets with pressed steel grips. The only MoD ones I saw had wooden grips (I think!).

The interesting thing about it is that much of the front end of the Sterling was designed to take a WW2 surplus bayonet. Very commendable in the 1950s, but they kept the design the same until they were folded up in the late 1980s. They were having bayonets from an obsolete rifle made because they couldn't change the details of the SMG. That suggests how cash-strapped they were.
 
Last edited:
#36
Sterlings made, or bought in, bayonets with pressed steel grips. The only MoD ones I saw had wooden grips (I think!).

The interesting thing about it is that much of the front end of the Sterling was designed to take a WW2 surplus bayonet. Very commendable in the 1950s, but they kept the design the same until they were folded up in the late 1980s. They were having bayonets from an obsolete rifle made because they couldn't change the details of the SMG. That suggests how cash-strapped they were.

Arguably the SMG and the No5 were the same vintage - the Patchett was tested and fielded at the same time as the No5. If the legends about its use at Arnhem (unlikely) and Walcheren (possible) are true, then the SMG could even be said to pre-date the operational use of the No5.

I suppose, having built 300-400k of the things, there was no point in Sterling trying to change a minor detail such as the bayonet fitting. Most of the Commonwealth customers for the L2A3 were No5 users anyway.

It was probably fortuitous that the No5 bayonet was a modern knife blade design; the alternative for the Patchett/SMG would of course to have a barrel extension to use the No4 grip-less spike and blade bayonets, or the awkward No9.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#37
Was the drill to throw the SMG equipped bayonet like a big dart , aiming for double top ?
Remove the mag and sling and extend the butt and its good to go. I have tried it and also put in a bayonet attack with an SMG.
 
#38
It would be easy to build up with weld though, it won't distort . Its a simple shape, though not many people are skilled at hand filing, and finishing small parts these days,
 
#39
Was the drill to throw the SMG equipped bayonet like a big dart , aiming for double top ?
I was told that SLR javelin throwing was a popular past-time with junior paras. With that and putting a sling on with the rifle open to get the sling tight. It's no wonder the stock SLRs were utterly knackered by the much-postponed end of their lives.

Arguably the SMG and the No5 were the same vintage - the Patchett was tested and fielded at the same time as the No5. If the legends about its use at Arnhem (unlikely) and Walcheren (possible) are true, then the SMG could even be said to pre-date the operational use of the No5.
They were very 1950ish, but in any other country, they'd have had a selection of front ends available to suit their customers individual bayonet, or no bayonet, requirements. There were lots of details in the SMG that might have been improved (the cocking handle is often mentioned) but the product remained immovably stuck in the 1950s. A bit like the UK motorcycle industry.

There was a Chilean Sterling lookalike that seemed to have been an attempt to make something similar, but better.

The PAF: Chile’s first indigenous submachine gun - The Firearm Blog
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top