DII - the costs

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by scida, Feb 7, 2009.

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  1. Just wondering if any other members can shed more light onto the ongoing/extra costs of DII(F)?

    Whilst serving I was often astonished at the costs of spares etc. I understand that manufacturers need to make a profit and recover R&D costs…but often, what they charge is a joke.

    So onto DII(F)…

    If a User Access Device (UAD) commonly known as a computer….needs to be moved from TAP (Terminal access point) to TAP, it costs the TLB of the Unit originating the move 107 quid…but it doesn’t end there. It will cost an extra 800+ if the UAD needs to be patched and the port opened on the switch. So ‘Sgt A’ submits a move request to G6 who process the paperwork and submit it to ATLAS. ATLAS then log it on their system and flag it as ‘awaiting user response’ bit like me sending you a letter, it drops through your letter box and after a week I ring asking you to open it….the rational from ATLAS? Well the clocks stopped on the request (RFC), SLA has been stalled because we’re waiting for the customer. When they finally get around to answering the request they send an email response to G6 (I have seen such an email)…before the move takes place G6 have to agree to the following that A) it will cost 107 quid and B) it could cost an extra 800+ if connectivity is required…and the IT illiterate (mostly) civil servants at G6 sign off…because after all it’s not their money being wasted.

    So what’s the extra 800 quid? You may ask. Without going into detail about MS22, IPL and the MEP stages … basically once the amount of DII(F) terminals that a building can have has been agreed then ATLAS can plan the passive and active network infrastructure e.g. TAP’s cabling, NER (network equipment room) placement, amount of switches, WAN runs etc. So ATLAS will know where every UAD is placed, what TAP it is connected to, what Patch panel that TAP terminates at and what switch and port the patch lead plugs into. The same is true with printers. By design there are always more TAPs than UAD’s and spare switch capacity. Any TAP that isn’t utilised ATLAS don’t patch and any switch port that isn’t used ATLAS admin disable.

    To enable a port and physically patch in a TAP ATLAS charge 800+ quid. To enable a port on a CISCO switch takes about 5 minutes.

    My view is that all TAPS should be patched and that all ports should be opened. If security is the driver for not doing so i.e. stops UAD’s, laptops etc being plugged into a spare TAP to have a sniff of the network…then what’s stopping someone unplugging a live UAD and using that TAP…the threat is already inside the wire. ATLAS don’t tie down ports to MAC addresses so the only reason they don’t enable spare ports is to charge the MoD for doing so…Nothing to do with security.

    Because of this I know of several occasions were local ATLAS hardware engineers have moved a UAD/Printer from A to B and the thing just sits there for a week or two because the Port hasn’t been enabled … that honour goes to someone working in Newcastle. The only ‘on the ground’ support ATLAS provide are hardware ‘engineers’ all other support 1st 2nd 3rd line is provided by the Data centre back in the UK.

    And now my post has turned into ‘war and piece’

    Recently a move of 20+ UAD’s from one garrison to another….disconnect them, transport them, patch them in and enable the ports cost the MoD 13 Grand! 1800 quid was just to patch them in!

    I recently asked a G6 type if moves etc were part of the overall DII costs…the answer was an affirmative no. I was informed that the cost of moves etc comes from local TLB’s. I then asked what would happen if the amount of moves exceeded the TLB budget within a financial year…he answered ‘well they would just get the money from somewhere else’


    From my experience I totally agree with Digby.

    Anyway I can see the rational for having one platform that encompasses all 3 services…but when that new platform is based on the same NOS then why not just join trees and create the forest??

    Any remarks, criticisms, corrections will be appreciated.
  2. It's pretty much cost me what was left of my sanity. Not sure what that would have been worth though - severely damaged article to start with.
  3. As far as im aware, to move a computer from one room to another it costs £500, not £107 as stated. Even if the office has the correct Taps for the wires as ATLAS have to fill out paperwork and get the monkeys to move the computer for you.

    Have you ever noticed, that for a single move, it takes three members of staff from ATLAS to move said equipment? £500, my ARRSE.
  4. i can assure you its £107 from tap to tap in the same building...accross site its more.
  5. I think you will find the Contract is, for want of a better word, CRAP.

    I still don't know how MoD have allowed a replacement system which, before I retired last year anyway, did not meet the then current capability never mind what it was intended to do ..........the /F bit, Future.

    I'd be interested SCIDA if it can now....perhaps you will advise?
  6. So we're not allowed to move them ourselves then? Oops
  7. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    As usual the MoD is way behind the civilian norm where on remote sites that are centrally managed all ports are either physically patched to 100% capacity and turned on and off via the switch management with intrusion detection to control unauthorised access and intrusion or active patching is used that enables the moves and changes to be facilitated by local staff, no visits from anyone involved.

    But they can't change until the contract is changed

    What a complete shower of shite
  8. The only costs i know off with DII(F) is the hour it takes to actually start up in the morning, the hour and a bit where it dies at lunchtime and of course the amount of wasted time when emails just go offline which is about every 30 minutes.
  9. Physically patch all ports, stick all unused ports in a seperate VLAN, job done.
  10. The answer to your question about DII(F) and incidentally most major MOD projects is….

    How many Ex members of staff (OK I wont beat about the bush Retired Officers) have lucrative non executive “consultant” positions with ATLAS :?

    All questions after this one are academic :roll:
  11. Well spotted that man but...........the contract was in place before most were 'employed', and they were only taken on because ATLAS thought by doing so they would have an easlier time with delivering the requirement.

    I had many a battle with the retired fraternity who assumed they could use thier previous rank/post to bully.

  12. Thats what I was thinking................. :oops:
  13. Hear Hear. Timed mine the other morning, 17 minutes from switching on to being able to read an email. Inter/Intranet is a joke, up to two minutes to load a page. Hours wasted every day. An email last week from higher HQ took 27 hours to appear - an agenda for a meeting already finished !.

    Have you seen how many people it takes ATLAS to handle one complaint - I counted 13 in the buck-passing trail associated with my last SPOC call -

  14. I haven't been able to read an e-mail for a month!

    Fcukin civvy contracts, took my PC away and haven't been back yet. No direct contact as you have to go via SPOC, absolute CNUTS :x
  15. But remember, that means that ATLAS would have to use (expensive) Cisco Catalyst switches (I have no idea what they actually do use) because those are the only ones where the VLAN functionality has been Common Criteria (or even CCTM) evaluated.