Digi DPM rumour !

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by H3, Nov 9, 2006.

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  1. H3

    H3 LE

  2. blue-sophist

    blue-sophist LE Good Egg (charities)

    Nothing known on this, but I suspect the pattern will be so small that at about 10 metres it'll just be a one-colour-dark-people-shaped-thing. See Elmer's latest dot-com-clothing offering; does it make them disappear into the background?

    In a previous existence, doing work on cam, our office had a 1940's cam manual. This observed something along the lines of "any cam pattern less than 6 yards across is ineffective beyond 300 yards" or something like that.

    Look out the window [in daylight] at anyone wearing DPM, or a vehicle, or an aircraft. Unless you're up close and personal, you don't see a pattern - just a dark-ish shape. About the only thing I ever saw that broke up a shape was an old Para Denison smock with mega-sized blocks of colour - and that went "one-colour- etc etc" beyond 500 yards.

    Save money, wear greeeeeeeeeen [or browwwwwwn, etc.].

    There's a thought - everyone wears a different colour, then it won't look like an advancing patrol of uniformed people, and you can recognise your mate 'cos he's the one in the light green. And everyone will shoot at you just in case - OK, forget that one :lol:
     
  3. Why dont we use a photo realistic cam print such as Real Tree? Works a treat in almost any background. Theres blokes use it on the moors, in the woods, in open fields and on the foreshore and trust me rouse, crows, deer and geese have infinitely better sight than us people! So long as we dont go back to those lovely red tunics of yore what does it matter? Failing that it probably wont ever happen as by the time its ready there will be something better to spend the money on. So cynical and Ive not even joined yet, sad very sad.
     
  4. At a guess

    -Cost (probably more expensive to make)
    -Too specific to particular areas (wetland no good in woods etc)
    -Looks sh1t and waltish
    -Only truly effective when stood still
    -Take a photo of sand for dessies?
    -Did I mention it looks sh1t?
     
  5. The new US cammo is digital, its an attempt at creating a universal camouflage pattern that will work in all environments.
    The problem with patterns like Real-Tree, Mossy-Oak and Tigerstripe, is that they are designed to work whilst stationary, which is fine for hunters or MAC-V-SOG, but not so good for general military use.
    The benefit of DPM is questionable, because as has already been pointed out, it tends to "blob out" (thats a technical term :wink: ) at more than a dozen or so yards.
    If you really want to disrupt your shape at range, the ideal camouflage pattern is a flat base colour, either green or khaki, with a few random broad, dark stripes on it.
     
  6. Cost could well be a defining factor but as the r and d will probably roll into millions anyway...

    As for specifics i was talking about just a basic real treepattern working in all those areas.

    Looking sh1t..possibly nay probably but your not planning on going to the pub in it, are you?

    Waltish... if used when paintballing but highly appropriate in the correct situation. Current dpm is waltish in the wrong situation.

    Yeah maybe sand is the one it wont work in. I doubt if anyones tried yet. Not much game in the desert after all.
     
  7.  
  8. Ive seen a fella stood in the middle of a field jumping about and waving his arms and remain invisible to the birds so narrowly missing his head!

    And before you point out that I could see him I knew where he was already.

    Im not saying its perfect I never intended to. Sorry for kicking off an argument.
     
  9. Sorry missed another post.

    True about the sandy places.

    Hadnt thought about public eye

    Whats wrong with trying your damned best not to get seen considering whats likely to follow. Maybe its just not cricket to hide?

    As for the link im afraid I dont have one the statement was only based on my friends experience. They shoot in many different places and due to the aforementioned generally only have the basic realtree pattern (not necessarily that brand though) and it does them well wherever they might need it. I personally have never used it as I cant afford it.
     
  10. So long as our berets don't end up like the ones in those photos, I'm not sure I mind over much...

    Actually, cancel that. DPM looks good, works pretty well and, most importanly, ain't broke. Couldn't we buy another helo or two for the price a redesign of the uniform would cost?

    sm.
     
  11. blue-sophist

    blue-sophist LE Good Egg (charities)

    With you there, Sandman, on all points.

    A quick back-to-basics on Camouflage, Concealment and Deception (CCD):

    1. Camouflage - "disguise". Unless you hop on one leg like a Fig11 [in which case everyone will shoot at you :lol: ] a man will be the shape of a man. Camouflage will only work if you travel with your own shrubbery [or ghillie suit]. So DPM will offer little other than a base layer for proper cam.

    2. Concealment - "hide". DPM will work if you hide in the QM store amongst piles of DPM clothing, otherwise you need your ghillie suit again. You it need to be able to work against a variety of backgrounds [urban, desert, woody].

    3. Deception - "mislead". DPM [whether dot-com or current] does not mislead in any way. Indeed, as discussed, beyond 10 metres it does nothing.

    But, as Sandman says, "single colour with a few bold stripes" may offer a shape-breaking ["deception"] advantage. An extreme example could be: trousers one leg dark, one light; jacket similar large colour difference on each sleeve and half the front/back. One of the colours will nearly match the background all the time - you then break up the basic shape, possibly confuse and mislead, and certainly complicate the task of finding a centre-of-mass aiming mark.

    Would look absolutely awful though :oops:
     
  12. What is this sh1t? "Trying too hard" to be camouflaged? "Looking sh1t", because we all want to look groovy in combat clothing? :cry:
     
  13. From experience, I find realtree etc to be a bit too environment-specific i.e one pattern for wetlands, one for hardwoods etc. And too expensive. It's also based on US foliage patterns - for example the problem with Flecktarn IIRC is that it was designed for mid-European Birch forests, whereas the label inside your DPM reads (or at least used to) 'temperate' i.e. a bit more universal.

    Our furry/feathery pals react more to things like shine, shape & silhoette for example a fully cammed-up bloke in a hide but with no gloves on, as soon as his white bits (ooeer missus)move, every pigeon within 3 miles shits itself and flaps off. Might just be my breath, though.

    I find that OG, Barbour brown or regular DPM works fine as long as you keep the contrast under control and don't jump around like an spastic frog when the birds are coming in or the bunnies taking a stroll. The photorealistic to the max approach works when you aren't moving but as soon as your weapon comes up to your shoulder, you can be spotted.

    Movement usually overcomes cam (unless you're Predator). So it might be of benefit to someone who needs to hide in the bushes without moving sneaking a peek at the opposition, but for the rest who have to run around not much point. Deer are the wariest buggers going and on the many occassions when I haven't been successful it's because they've spotted movement... Bambi goes "why did that big bush thing just scratch it's nuts? Leg it!"
     
  14. Ok well we should all wear some sort of ghillie suits then, they will hide us well and make us look scruffy as fcuk. Bear in mind when the army appear in the public eye it is often in combats, it is important to look good, forget your romanticised views of being invisible special forces this is seldom neccessary in current ops and if it is you will be trained and wear appropriate attire. CS95 is working dress, you would look like a prick in an office/fixing a rover in realtree, that is what I meant by trying too hard.