Diggers get to keep bayonets as weapons but not US Army

#1
Diggers get to keep bayonets as weapons
March 30, 2010

THE US Army says the bayonet is obsolete but Australian Diggers will continue to use it as a close-quarters weapon.

Last week the US Army ended centuries of military tradition by scrapping bayonet drill, saying the practice was outmoded.

US army instructors say it is more important to teach soldiers how to improvise in close-quarters fighting with weapons such as knives.

But the order to "fix bayonets" would be staying in the Australian Army's basic training manual, a defence spokeswoman told The Australian.

"The Australian Army continues to use bayonet fighting to underpin its core behaviour of being an expert in close combat," she said.

"It is also used as a means to increase dexterity and fitness.

"There is no intent to remove the bayonet from our inventory.

"Bayonet fighting will continue to be used to develop our soldiers close-quarters combat capability."

Like the sharp end of the ubiquitous Russian-designed AK-47 assault riffle, the Australian-issued bayonet and scabbard together form a useful wire-cutting tool and also can be used to dig a foxhole or shell scrape.

It is specifically designed for attachment to a standard-issue Steyr 5.56mm assault rifle.

While the US Army is ditching the weapon, the US Marine Corps, with whom the Australian Defence Force is frequently involved in joint operations, will also keep the bayonet.

According to the Australian War Memorial, the last bayonet charge by Australian forces was carried out in Vietnam by 5 Platoon, 6th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment during desperate fighting on February 17, 1967.

In the engagement half of 5 Platoon became casualties.

Just who won that battle is still keenly debated. Total Australian casualties were eight killed and 26 wounded.

In Operation Bribie, Australian troops were ambushed by two Viet Cong companies in the coastal village of Phuoc Hai, then found themselves surrounded by a well entrenched enemy whom the Diggers were unable to dislodge despite the bayonet charge.

Hanoi proclaimed the battle a victory for its forces.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...onets-as-weapons/story-e6frg6nf-1225847179104
But....

The army’s views remain at odds with the US Marine Corps, which still has bayonet training firmly on its agenda, even though Marines last used them in Vietnam.
A spokesman for the Marines’ Training and Education Command said there was a special bayonet course that all recruits had to complete as part of the Marine Corps Martial Arts Programme. “They have to go through a whole checklist of bayonet drills, including slash techniques,” the spokesman said. “It’s still relevant for us in Afghanistan.”
[/size]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7066220.ece
 
#3
jumpinjarhead said:
THE US Army says the bayonet is obsolete
stupid, stupid, stupid............................

what about the need for a few extra inches of length when pushing open that dodgy door???

what about the intimidation factor when pushing around POWs and detainees???

and most important of all, what about the best deterrent ever to stop protesters and agitators from attemping to snach your weapon out of your hands during civil disturbance???

never mind the bonus of a extra barrel weight on the end to help stop recoil/muzzle flip, helps makes rifle more steady for quicker repeditive fire on target and it keeps the end out of the mud when you trip over on the assault.

ffs, theres a hundred and one uses of a bayonet before you might need it for smashing in someones face whilst reloading.

more to add later when I'm not getting yelled at for Arrseing when ment to be working

stupid stupid non-thinking basterds.
 
#4
I would of thought after a few Brits made the headlines with bayonet kills in 'stan, that they'd keep them. Maybe the new fangled SCAR's can't mount them, and someones feeling a bit butthurt over the issue!!
 
#6
Aint we complaining about not having enough bayonets left in the section?
 
#8
DrStealth said:
jumpinjarhead said:
THE US Army says the bayonet is obsolete
and most important of all, what about the best deterrent ever to stop protesters and agitators from attemping to snach your weapon out of your hands during civil disturbance???
.

I thought that said alligators, I was thinking wow alligators they wouldn't like the bayonet. I have just woke up though. :D
 
#9
jumpinjarhead said:
For you kit junkies here is the USMC current version:



Nomenclature
We have its NSN someone get onto stores! :twisted:
 
#10
instinct said:
jumpinjarhead said:
For you kit junkies here is the USMC current version:



Nomenclature
We have its NSN someone get onto stores! :twisted:
In typical USMC fashion (like on our combat uniform, boots etc.) we have our corps badge mo(u)lded into the grip so it may not be in your system! Such embedded "provenance" makes for more valuable trading!
 
#11
I am all for krag mava and improvised close combat sh1t. Any edge is good edge. however the point of doing away with bayonet training eludes me. (point, edge, see what I did there!)

The IDf teaches unarmed combat to a very high standard but also continues to teach bayonet fighting. So, why increasing one means leaving out the other I don't know. Haven't these people ever seen Zulu FFS!?
 
#12
jumpinjarhead said:
instinct said:
jumpinjarhead said:
For you kit junkies here is the USMC current version:



Nomenclature
We have its NSN someone get onto stores! :twisted:
In typical USMC fashion (like on our combat uniform, boots etc.) we have our corps badge mo(u)lded into the grip so it may not be in your system! Such embedded "provenance" makes for more valuable trading!
What is it with you chaps showing the two fingers to the rest of the US military? :p
 
#13
instinct said:
jumpinjarhead said:
instinct said:
jumpinjarhead said:
For you kit junkies here is the USMC current version:



Nomenclature
We have its NSN someone get onto stores! :twisted:
In typical USMC fashion (like on our combat uniform, boots etc.) we have our corps badge mo(u)lded into the grip so it may not be in your system! Such embedded "provenance" makes for more valuable trading!
What is it with you chaps showing the two fingers to the rest of the US military? :p
I don't follow--Septic remember. I know we are accused of using one finger a lot but two? :D
 
#15
jumpinjarhead said:
Diggers get to keep bayonets as weapons
March 30, 2010

THE US Army says the bayonet is obsolete but Australian Diggers will continue to use it as a close-quarters weapon.

Last week the US Army ended centuries of military tradition by scrapping bayonet drill, saying the practice was outmoded.

US army instructors say it is more important to teach soldiers how to improvise in close-quarters fighting with weapons such as knives.

But the order to "fix bayonets" would be staying in the Australian Army's basic training manual, a defence spokeswoman told The Australian.

"The Australian Army continues to use bayonet fighting to underpin its core behaviour of being an expert in close combat," she said.

"It is also used as a means to increase dexterity and fitness.

"There is no intent to remove the bayonet from our inventory.

"Bayonet fighting will continue to be used to develop our soldiers close-quarters combat capability."

Like the sharp end of the ubiquitous Russian-designed AK-47 assault riffle, the Australian-issued bayonet and scabbard together form a useful wire-cutting tool and also can be used to dig a foxhole or shell scrape.

It is specifically designed for attachment to a standard-issue Steyr 5.56mm assault rifle.

While the US Army is ditching the weapon, the US Marine Corps, with whom the Australian Defence Force is frequently involved in joint operations, will also keep the bayonet.

According to the Australian War Memorial, the last bayonet charge by Australian forces was carried out in Vietnam by 5 Platoon, 6th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment during desperate fighting on February 17, 1967.

In the engagement half of 5 Platoon became casualties.

Just who won that battle is still keenly debated. Total Australian casualties were eight killed and 26 wounded.

In Operation Bribie, Australian troops were ambushed by two Viet Cong companies in the coastal village of Phuoc Hai, then found themselves surrounded by a well entrenched enemy whom the Diggers were unable to dislodge despite the bayonet charge.

Hanoi proclaimed the battle a victory for its forces.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...onets-as-weapons/story-e6frg6nf-1225847179104
But....

The army’s views remain at odds with the US Marine Corps, which still has bayonet training firmly on its agenda, even though Marines last used them in Vietnam.
A spokesman for the Marines’ Training and Education Command said there was a special bayonet course that all recruits had to complete as part of the Marine Corps Martial Arts Programme. “They have to go through a whole checklist of bayonet drills, including slash techniques,” the spokesman said. “It’s still relevant for us in Afghanistan.”
[/size]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7066220.ece
The British Army used them to good effect in Iraq in 2004 see below

Published: 17 May 2004
)
OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago.

The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.

Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.

The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.

After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.

When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway ? and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.

An Army spokesman said: “This was an intense engagement.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article88661.ece#ixzz0jfsletcb

The Iraqi's certainly didn't like it up 'em, well done the Jocks :salut:
 
#16
The Tragic Story of Willie Lump Lump

After WW 11, a boy named Willie Lump Lump enlisted in the Army. He went to Fort Benning to take his infantry training, sixteen weeks of sweat and tears and lots of punishment, to turn him into a hardened soldier. Along about the seventh week of training, a sergeant stood up in front of his class and said, "Gentlemen, I'm Sergeant Slasher, and today I'm going to introduce you to the bayonet. On guard! With that, the sergeant went into the correct stance for holding the bayonet. "On the battlefield," he continued, 'you will meet the enemy, and there will be times when you will need this bayonet to defeat the enemy. To KILL the enemy! Over the next weeks you'll be receiving a twenty-hour block of instruction on the bayonet, and I will be your principal instructor."

Willie Lump Lump went back to the barracks, deeply upset. Man, that was so brutal out there today, he thought. The war is over. We're living in peace and tranquillity, and still the Army is teaching us how to use these horrible weapons! "Dear Mom," he wrote home. "Today the sergeant told me he's going to teach me how to use the bayonet to kill enemy soldiers or, the battle field.'

Willie's mother was shocked. She got right on the phone: "Hello, Congressman DoGood? This is Mrs. Lump Lump. I want to tell you what's happening down at Fort Benning, Georgia. Here it is, 1949, and they're teaching my baby to kill with a bayonet. It's uncivilized! It's barbaric!"

The Congressman immediately got on the horn. "Hello, General Playitright at the Pentagon? This is Congressman DoGood. I understand the Army is still giving bayonet training."

"Yes, we are."

"Do you think it's a good idea? I don't think it's a very good thing at all. It's even somewhat uncivilized. 1 mean, really, how many times does a soldier need his bayonet?"

“Not very often, sir, it's true. Actually, I was just reviewing the Army Training Program myself, and I was thinking that the bayonet is a pretty obsolete weapon. I agree with you. I'll put out instructions that it's going to stop…”

The next day, seven hundred miles away: "Gentlemen, I am Sergeant Slasher. This is your second class on bayonet training--" the sergeant was interrupted by a lieutenant walking purposefully toward his across the training field. “Stand easy, men."

"It's out," the lieutenant whispered.

"What!" said the sergeant.

"It's out," the lieutenant whispered again. The sergeant nodded, his mouth wide open in disbelief. He returned to his class.

“Gentlemen, we'll have to break here. It looks as if bayonet training has been discontinued in the Army.

A year later, PFC Lump Lump, the model soldier, deployed to Korea with the 1st battalion, 23rd Regiment, 2nd infantry Division. He was standing on a frozen hill and the Chinese were coming it him--wave after wave after wave. Willie stood like a rock. Resolutely, he shot the enemy down. Suddenly he realized he was out of ammunition. He looked at his belt--not a round left. He saw a Chinaman rushing toward his. He remembered the first class on bayonet training. He reached down and pulled his bayonet out of his scabbard. Shaking and fumbling, he tried to fit it an the end of his weapon, but by that time the Chinese soldier was standing over him, with a bayonet of his own.

The Secretary of the Army signed his thousandth letter for the day: "Dear Mrs. Lump Lump; It is with deep regret that I must inform you that your son, PFC Lump Lump, was killed in action 27 November 1950."

Heartbroken, Mrs. Lump Lump wrote to some friends of young Willie's in the company. "Now?" she asked. "Why???" "Willie wasn't trained," they wrote back. 'He didn't know how to use his bayonet." Now Mrs. Lump Lump was not only heartbroken, but outraged. She didn't even bother to call Congressman DoGood. She barged right into his office.

"Why?" she cried and screamed. "Why wasn't my son trained for war?" ...
 
#17
The army’s views remain at odds with the US Marine Corps, which still has bayonet training firmly on its agenda, even though Marines last used them in Vietnam.
A spokesman for the Marines’ Training and Education Command said there was a special bayonet course that all recruits had to complete as part of the Marine Corps Martial Arts Programme. “They have to go through a whole checklist of bayonet drills, including slash techniques,” the spokesman said. “It’s still relevant for us in Afghanistan.”
[/size]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7066220.ece
[/quote]

I refuse to believe for one second that the last time a US Marine used a bayonet in anger was the Vietnam War.
 
#18
How can the bayonet be obsolete ? :?
Well in my view it just cant, in a combat zone such as Afghanistan where fighting is up close and personal at times i imagine the ability to have and use a bayonet is somewhat comforting. :D
 

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