Did you see the photos of the Calvine UFO in the 1990s?

[loofkar]

It's nice that only the screeching moonbats believe in us. Makes it so much simpler when we disappear them into the protein vats...

I was under the impression that you prefer Zamalek vats.

 

[Lardbeast]

Cleaning them out first is more trouble than it's worth. There are things in there that have existed since that Khufu bloke asked the local pikeys to knock up a garage for him to park the dimensional transporter we gave him.

 

[Slime]

You would say that, wouldn't you?

Obviously part of the cover-up.

Obviously a total shill (sp)

But, listening to a woman say that she saw a UFO and then pretty quickly USAF C130s were overhead did leave me to wonder:

How she knew they were USAF Hercs rather than perhaps RAF Hercs taking part in the regular UK forces ex going on in the area. Or how fast she (should have) thought they would have needed to fly to get on scene from their bases in the the East of England.

While she made 100% sure she didn’t take a camera when she got her kit together for her planned trip ‘to get evidence’ she just seemed a bit too clever in her pitch darkness aircraft recognition skills imho

 

[baldbof]

Hello. Thank you for replying.

I do sympathise with your point of view.

As non-military people ourselves, we admittedly don't have experience of the secrecy/loyalty/keep-your-gob-shut culture that predominates in the forces and which seems to persist long into retirement.

We are also, truth be told, often surprised by the fear shown by retirees about what they feel they can say. According to government sources, though, there's less than 1 prosecution per year under the OSA (Official Secrets Act), and even for revealing ISIS targets or leaking contemporary state secrets, people get very brief sentences or just fines.

What could be so secret from 1990 that these people are still, according to them, afraid to talk to us about it fully some 32 years later? The enigma secret was revealed after less than 3 decades, for example, and it's hard to imagine something more valuable to the British state than that.

You show your complete naivety in believing nothing should be secret after the passage of a set number of years.

When Mrs b wore the light blue uniform, she worked in areas which needed astronomically high clearance levels. To this day, and we've been married for forty years, I still don't know aspects of the work she was involved in as some of it may still be relevant today. Don't even try asking!

There is a saying "Those that need to know, know. Those that don't, don't".

The fact that people do not want to disclose information they may be privvy to, doesn't mean they are afraid of saying something - on the contrary, they are being professional and responsible.

 

[Lardbeast]

Of course. They know to keep quiet or they'll join the rest of you delicious morsels in the protein vats.

 

[CivvyPete]

To the OP: have you considered that the fast jet type and the diamond shape could have been different sizes at different distances?

Because the black diamond shape that hovers silently that comes into my mind is a traditional kite made with a black bin bag and tethered with fishing line. ( Chinese military technology - from the 5th century BC). Binocular vision only works at very short distances, and in the sky with no references it's very hard to judge scale/distance, or even orientation/direction of travel. The fast jet may have circled, but the diamond shape may not have been at the centre of that manouever, except optically.

 

[baldbof]

He's now asked the same question over on e-goat.

 

[bandits]

You show your complete naivety in believing nothing should be secret after the passage of a set number of years.

When Mrs b wore the light blue uniform, she worked in areas which needed astronomically high clearance levels. To this day, and we've been married for forty years, I still don't know aspects of the work she was involved in as some of it may still be relevant today. Don't even try asking!

There is a saying "Those that need to know, know. Those that don't, don't".

The fact that people do not want to disclose information they may be privvy to, doesn't mean they are afraid of saying something - on the contrary, they are being professional and responsible.

Hello.

I spent some time thinking about people's comment(s) and investigating more deeply the topic of official secrecy. Again, in contrast to what some people seem to allege, I have absolutely no preconceived notion of what the photo shows. We have been told, by people we know to have been directly involved in the matter, that it was a secret American craft, so we have tried to run with that and see where it leads. We make calls, we visit archives, and we post on fora (much as a last resort really). I can't see that all that makes me a conspiracy theorist. I am also mystified why that open approach seems to generate such scorn from certain quarters, but perhaps such people behave like that with every post they comment on and are merely acting in bad faith towards all such questions. I do think, despite everything, perhaps I do possess an element of naivety in hoping (more than anything else), that actions taken in the public's name, supposedly in their defence, and using public funds supplied by them might, in the fullness of time, be revealed to them, if not officially by the state, then unofficially by certain individuals who were involved. I appreciate that reading that might generate some snorts of derision given how we all know the state operates in practice as opposed to theory (Foreign Office hoarding 1m historic files in secret archive), but as a military outsider, I think that publicly offering to listen to individuals who might come forward is the best I can do at this stage (32 years after the fact).

I'm also not trying to be snarky and I certainly don't wish to have an argument, but, with respect, I don't feel I was being completely naive as I don't believe I ever said I think that anything should automatically be declassified after X years. I was only pointing out that certain formerly "big" (if one might put it like that) secrets had been somewhat declassified after roughly three decades of silence, e.g. F117a and Enigma. Other matters have certainly been kept much more secret and often for much, much longer, if not forever (e.g. Revealed: the bonfire of papers at the end of Empire and Top 10 Forgotten British Government Conspiracies - Listverse), and one can always imagine there might be others than one knows nothing of at all (e.g. Rumsfeld's "unknown unknowns").

When one looks at the Calvine debate online, many people (not me), have argued that if the Calvine photos depict a real craft (which remains possible given what we've now been told off the record), the cost of continuing to keep it secret for so long begins to outweigh the benefits of doing so (and the same people say that's what happened with the F117a). I doubt that is true, to be honest, not least because:

(1) secrecy is at this stage probably largely a sunk cost,
(2) the suppression/destruction of documents renders any individual's testimony fascinating (to us) but largely moot without evidentiary corroboration,
(3) professionalism/loyalty to the forces/state (as you correctly point out) drastically reduces the number of people willing to ever speak out and the amount they're willing to say if/when they do, and
(4) the potential personal penalties that still exist for speaking out potentially far exceed the benefits of revealing the "truth", whatever it might be.

We're also not considering a crime here. A whistle-blower revealing corruption might feel compelled to come forward, no matter the risks, but when considering just a secret vehicle (no matter how advanced) there perhaps doesn't seem to be the same impetus towards disclosure.

In addition, whilst the professionalism/responsibility angle you mention no doubt does play a part in ensuring the silence of people involved in secret projects (people don't sign the OSA for nothing, I agree), the people we spoke to did specifically mention that they were afraid of the consequences of saying too much.

Elsewhere, my posting similar questions on different aeronautical sites seems to have generated several comments. I did, admittedly, post on PPRuNe before here and e-goat afterwards, but only as it was recommended on here that I do so (I had never heard of e-goat before it was pointed out here). I was under the impression that the audiences for each site might be slightly different, hence I wanted to maximise the chances of finding people who might enlighten us. To those who have taken the time to do so, having seen my request on different fora, we are more grateful than ever.

Several people have messaged privately to ask if I might post again if we ever do find anything "concrete" about the photos and the craft, and I certainly will. Given the passage of time, the reticence of those involved to talk, and the lack of a paper trail, I accept that it's unlikely we shall ever know, but we shall see. Maybe in 20 years!

For now, that's all I have, but thanks again to those who have contributed constructively.

 

[Lardbeast]

Yah, having a preconcieved fantasy and then scratching around to find scraps to support that is SOP for the moonscreechers. Apart from the odd conspiraloon, most on here are both sane and cynical, a fatal combination for those seeking an alternative truth.

 

[Slime]

Hello.

I spent some time thinking about people's comment(s) and investigating more deeply the topic of official secrecy. I think, despite everything, perhaps I do possess an element of naivety in hoping (more than anything else), that actions taken in the public's name, supposedly in their defence, and using public funds supplied by them might, in the fullness of time, be revealed to them, if not officially by the state, then unofficially by certain individuals who were involved. I appreciate that reading that might generate some snorts of derision given how we all know the state operates in practice (as opposed to theory), but I think that willing individuals to come forward is the best I can hope for at this stage (32 years after the fact).

I'm also not trying to be snarky and I certainly don't wish to have an argument, but, with respect, I don't feel I was being completely naive as I don't believe I ever said I think that anything should automatically be declassified after X years. I was only pointing out that certain formerly "big" (if one might put it like that) secrets had been somewhat declassified after roughly three decades of silence, e.g. F117a and Enigma. Other matters have certainly been kept much more secret and often for much, much longer, if not forever (e.g. Revealed: the bonfire of papers at the end of Empire and Top 10 Forgotten British Government Conspiracies - Listverse), and one can always imagine there might be others than one knows nothing of at all (e.g. Rumsfeld's "unknown unknowns").

When one looks at the Calvine debate online, many people (not me), have argued that if the Calvine photos depict a real craft (which remains possible given what we've now been told off the record), the cost of continuing to keep it secret for so long begins to outweigh the benefits of doing so (and the same people say that's what happened with the F117a). I doubt that is true, to be honest, not least because:

(1) secrecy is at this stage probably largely a sunk cost,
(2) the suppression/destruction of documents renders any individual's testimony fascinating (to us) but largely moot without evidentiary corroboration,
(3) professionalism/loyalty to the forces/state (as you correctly point out) drastically reduces the number of people willing to ever speak out and the amount they're willing to say if/when they do, and
(4) the potential personal penalties that still exist for speaking out potentially far exceed the benefits of revealing the "truth", whatever it might be.

We're also not considering a crime here. A whistle-blower revealing corruption might feel compelled to come forward, no matter the risks, but when considering just a secret vehicle (no matter how advanced) there perhaps doesn't seem to be the same impetus towards disclosure.

In addition, whilst the professionalism/responsibility angle you mention no doubt does play a part in ensuring the silence of people involved in secret projects (people don't sign the OSA for nothing, I agree), the people we spoke to did specifically mention that they were afraid of the consequences of saying too much.

Elsewhere, my posting similar questions on different aeronautical sites seems to have generated several comments. I did, admittedly, post on PPRuNe before here and e-goat afterwards, but only as it was recommended on here that I do so (I had never heard of e-goat before it was pointed out here). I was under the impression that the audiences for each site might be slightly different, hence I wanted to maximise the chances of finding people who might enlighten us. To those who have taken the time to do so, having seen my request on different fora, we are more grateful than ever.

Several people have messaged privately to ask if I might post again if we ever do find anything "concrete" about the photos and the craft, and I certainly will. Given the passage of time, the reticence of those involved to talk, and the lack of a paper trail, I accept that it's unlikely we shall ever know, but we shall see. Maybe in 20 years!

For now, that's all I have, but thanks again to those who have contributed.

You sound a bit like a conspiracy theorist to be honest, well that or just far too naive.

I would add: If you fancy some pretty easy research, the F117 is a pretty easy first project.
There are plenty of features in books and magazines discussing the new US stealth aircraft project that date many years before any public disclosure. He way things became revealed for those who looked is nothing like your post might suggest imho.

It’s just as well that you are covered by the official secrets act too*

*Thats an obvious joke contained in a factual comment.

 

[CutLunchCommando]

Hello.

I spent some time thinking about people's comment(s) and investigating more deeply the topic of official secrecy. Again, in contrast to what some people seem to allege, I have absolutely no preconceived notion of what the photo shows. We have been told, by people we know to have been directly involved in the matter, that it was a secret American craft, so we have tried to run with that and see where it leads. We make calls, we visit archives, and we post on fora (much as a last resort really). I can't see that all that makes me a conspiracy theorist. I am also mystified why that open approach seems to generate such scorn from certain quarters, but perhaps such people behave like that with every post they comment on and are merely acting in bad faith towards all such questions. I do think, despite everything, perhaps I do possess an element of naivety in hoping (more than anything else), that actions taken in the public's name, supposedly in their defence, and using public funds supplied by them might, in the fullness of time, be revealed to them, if not officially by the state, then unofficially by certain individuals who were involved. I appreciate that reading that might generate some snorts of derision given how we all know the state operates in practice as opposed to theory (Foreign Office hoarding 1m historic files in secret archive), but as a military outsider, I think that publicly offering to listen to individuals who might come forward is the best I can do at this stage (32 years after the fact).

I'm also not trying to be snarky and I certainly don't wish to have an argument, but, with respect, I don't feel I was being completely naive as I don't believe I ever said I think that anything should automatically be declassified after X years. I was only pointing out that certain formerly "big" (if one might put it like that) secrets had been somewhat declassified after roughly three decades of silence, e.g. F117a and Enigma. Other matters have certainly been kept much more secret and often for much, much longer, if not forever (e.g. Revealed: the bonfire of papers at the end of Empire and Top 10 Forgotten British Government Conspiracies - Listverse), and one can always imagine there might be others than one knows nothing of at all (e.g. Rumsfeld's "unknown unknowns").

When one looks at the Calvine debate online, many people (not me), have argued that if the Calvine photos depict a real craft (which remains possible given what we've now been told off the record), the cost of continuing to keep it secret for so long begins to outweigh the benefits of doing so (and the same people say that's what happened with the F117a). I doubt that is true, to be honest, not least because:

(1) secrecy is at this stage probably largely a sunk cost,
(2) the suppression/destruction of documents renders any individual's testimony fascinating (to us) but largely moot without evidentiary corroboration,
(3) professionalism/loyalty to the forces/state (as you correctly point out) drastically reduces the number of people willing to ever speak out and the amount they're willing to say if/when they do, and
(4) the potential personal penalties that still exist for speaking out potentially far exceed the benefits of revealing the "truth", whatever it might be.

We're also not considering a crime here. A whistle-blower revealing corruption might feel compelled to come forward, no matter the risks, but when considering just a secret vehicle (no matter how advanced) there perhaps doesn't seem to be the same impetus towards disclosure.

In addition, whilst the professionalism/responsibility angle you mention no doubt does play a part in ensuring the silence of people involved in secret projects (people don't sign the OSA for nothing, I agree), the people we spoke to did specifically mention that they were afraid of the consequences of saying too much.

Elsewhere, my posting similar questions on different aeronautical sites seems to have generated several comments. I did, admittedly, post on PPRuNe before here and e-goat afterwards, but only as it was recommended on here that I do so (I had never heard of e-goat before it was pointed out here). I was under the impression that the audiences for each site might be slightly different, hence I wanted to maximise the chances of finding people who might enlighten us. To those who have taken the time to do so, having seen my request on different fora, we are more grateful than ever.

Several people have messaged privately to ask if I might post again if we ever do find anything "concrete" about the photos and the craft, and I certainly will. Given the passage of time, the reticence of those involved to talk, and the lack of a paper trail, I accept that it's unlikely we shall ever know, but we shall see. Maybe in 20 years!

For now, that's all I have, but thanks again to those who have contributed constructively.

None of this sounds academic to me.

 

[Lardbeast]

Imagine my surprise...




Shit flecked dumb deployed in 3... 2... 1...


If the excitable little gremlin can unclench its puny fists long enough to click the mouse on the icon.

 

[Richard Headicus]

Yah, having a preconcieved fantasy and then scratching around to find scraps to support that is SOP for the moonscreechers. Apart from the odd conspiraloon, most on here are both sane and cynical, a fatal combination for those seeking an alternative truth.

You've been on here for nearly 20 years, and you believe that? Aye,right.

 

[Lardbeast]

For a given degree of sanity.

The cynicism requires no explanation, although it tends to be something loonies don't do very well. Not the bat poo deely bobber wearing ones anyway...

 

[HendrixGin]

That looks like a GR3 in the background

Spacey McSpaceface

 

[Slime]

Spacey McSpaceface

You‘ve cracked it, job jobbed.

 

[loofkar]

That looks like a GR3 in the background

I never thought the brylcream boys could succeed in keeping their aerodynamic aircrew portmanteaus under wraps for ever and here's the proof.

 

[Aviator12]

The plane or rather design you refer to was a familiar bot on the screen over and out over the seas from Scarborough, it was tracked for speed and minimal radio & radar emission, I recall when up at RAF Scampton recording it at over 3000 Mph, we thought our calibration was out however a Sophwerth Camel used as a test bed proved the readings were right

What timeframe it happened? Was it like the early 90's or before or later as well?
Was it just one event?

 

[Aviator12]

In the late 80's/early 90's (I can't recall the exact time) there was something flying around the NW. It had been sighted in several places and even a picture taken of it flying in the Trough of Bowland (I can't find one on the net unfortunately) which appeared in the national press at the time. Given that BAe had many sites in the region, everyone thought it was them and it all quietly died down.
Some talk was that it also employed adaptive camoflage too, but I doubt that as it may have been a stretch back then, even for a hi-tech company.
The incident near Manchester involved a plane coming in on finals having a very near miss with a missile shaped object The one sighted elsewhere was similar in size and form as a modern jet powered stealth drone by all accounts.

How the 'plane' looked like? Was it triangular planform? How big was the aircraft, what dimensions?

 

[baldbof]

The OP is still asking questions over on Pprune....and still chasing an answer to fit his narrative. He's persistent, I'll give him that.