Did the crew of HMS Cornwall have any other choice?

#1
I've often pondered whether the captured rig crew of the RN HMS Cornwall had any other choice than to give in to Iranian gunboats. What would you do in their shoes?

BBC NEWS | UK | UK sailors captured at gunpoint

So a mix of RN/RM personnel including 1 woman, all armed with SA80A2, a RN Lynx flying about and a type 22 on the horizon vs a few Iranian gunboats with .50 cal? Bearing in mind of course that the Iranians were at close quarters.

What would be your next move after being surrounded by Iranian gunboats?

Preferably without any mention of ipods.

DC
 
#3
I don't recall anyone coming up with a hypothetical situation for what else they may have done, except some brief speculation at the time. Tho the incident is far enough in the past now to warrant a 'what if' discussion imho.

Forgive me for trying to create a thought provoking thread in the relevant forum section instead of posting inane bollocks, I can see why you're a ****.
 
#4
OI'll ask batch if you want? He's on my current ship, I'm sure like you he'd be keen to drag up a low point in our service's history.

At the end of the day, matelots arn't trained for that sort of thing, it's what we have marines for- god knows what they were doing there at the time as they weren't doing boarding ops and defiantly wouldn't have been doing anything covert- Sea Specs are trained in trying ropes and chipping rust, not James Bond style secret ops.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=50.529150,-3.599067
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#5
I had this chat recently actually. Everyone is alive and it's now largely forgotten about so it all worked out for the best.

Obviously it would've been cool if the booties had shot up all the Iranians, but clearly given the circumstances, that wasn't ever going to be on the cards.
 
#6
OI'll ask batch if you want? He's on my current ship, I'm sure like you he'd be keen to drag up a low point in our service's history.

At the end of the day, matelots arn't trained for that sort of thing, it's what we have marines for- god knows what they were doing there at the time as they weren't doing boarding ops and defiantly wouldn't have been doing anything covert- Sea Specs are trained in trying ropes and chipping rust, not James Bond style secret ops.

---
I am here: Google Maps

Dry your eyes princess, in case you haven't noticed this is the Military History forum, not the fecking NAAFI bar. I've no desire to tarnish the name of the RN, but if we're discussing history we can at least try to do it from a serious and unbiased perspective. The RN have enough illustrious history not to be overly concerned with some Mid Eastern raghead telly promotion. In order to participate here try and contribute something without letting your own emotions get in the way. That's called rational debate, welcome to the adult world.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
OI'll ask batch if you want? He's on my current ship, I'm sure like you he'd be keen to drag up a low point in our service's history.

At the end of the day, matelots arn't trained for that sort of thing, it's what we have marines for- god knows what they were doing there at the time as they weren't doing boarding ops and defiantly wouldn't have been doing anything covert- Sea Specs are trained in trying ropes and chipping rust, not James Bond style secret ops.

---
I am here: Google Maps
NM - This thread's gratuitous - please don't rise to it.

That said, what does Batch do nowadays when he wants to listen to music?
 
#8
I suppose if the crew did open fire, not only could an avoidable large-scale war commence, but the crew themselves would be under investigation for a long time by the government.

If i was in those circumstances i would bug out, with an apology of some sorts. Although many Anti-British critics *not finger pointing at certain Americans* will call our military 'pussies'. But, as most of these people are just keyboard jockeys too lazy to go out and exercise, I think we would be alright.
 
#11
I suppose if the crew did open fire, not only could an aviodable large-scale war commence, but the crew themselves would be under investigation for a long time by the government.

If i was in those circumstances i would bug out, with an apology of some sorts. Although many Anti-British critics *not finger pointing at certain Americans* will call our military 'pussies'. But, as most of these people are just keyboard jockeys too lazy to go out and exercise, I think we would be alright.

My thoughts also, if we did engage we may have ended up with another war or at the very least a boat load of dead marines/sailors. The fact that we got away safe and well with steady thinking in the heat of the moment should be seen as a moral victory for the RN than a sign of weakness. If anything it's the tabloids back home which had a field day running a crap story with little understanding of the consequences if another course of action were taken.
 
#12
My thoughts also, if we did engage we may have ended up with another war or at the very least a boat load of dead marines/sailors. The fact that we got away safe and well with steady thinking in the heat of the moment should be seen as a moral victory for the RN than a sign of weakness. If anything it's the tabloids back home which had a field day running a crap story with little understanding of the consequences if another course of action were taken.
The capture was not what made the RN look bad. It was the subsequent actions of those detained.
 
#16
You may have a point, but matelots get pished just like squaddies, I doubt there'd be much difference if it happened to WW2 sailors or modern sailors. They'd still go on a run ashore and inevitably people would ask what happened. It's just unfortunate the press were there, but that doesn't undermine the moral victory. It's like claiming Dunkirk to be a disaster rather than a miraculous escape, their getting getting smashed and telling the press some minor details doesn't overlook the fact that we avoided WW3 and got out of a very dodgy situation unscathed.

What would the yanks have done in that situation I wonder? A rig full of bodies? Might we be at war with Iran now as a result?
 
#17
I've often pondered whether the captured rig crew of the RN HMS Cornwall had any other choice than to give in to Iranian gunboats. What would you do in their shoes?

BBC NEWS | UK | UK sailors captured at gunpoint

So a mix of RN/RM personnel including 1 woman, all armed with SA80A2, a RN Lynx flying about I believe it went back to the ship leaving the boarding party on thier tod and a type 22 on the horizon and epicly out of range vs a few Iranian gunboats with .50 cal? Bearing in mind of course that the Iranians were at close quarters.

What would be your next move after being surrounded by Iranian gunboats? Outnumbered, without immediate support and armed with SA80 vs .50 I'd be reaching for the sky...

Preferably without any mention of ipods.

DC
Not one to stick up for the RN but enough time has passed and it wasn't the bods on the ground/boat who fcuked up. This should be a prime example of how not to run a PR gig (and I don't mean the Iranians...).
 
#18
The last time I had a SERE/Conduct after capture brief we were told it had been changed because of how some of those captured had acted.
At the time did the average matelot have any CAC training?

I wasn't in the situation these kids were in (having left 20 years previously) so I have no other comment. However, I'm sure British Legions, RNA clubs. NAAFIs, etc from Lands End to John O'Groats (and indeed this forum) are full of piss-stained 'veterans' of hoorhouses in BAOR who can give you a blow-by-blow account of how they would have defended the neatly piled stacks of blankets that were their personal fiefdom againt GSFG, IRN, IRA, ITN, GFA. and all others.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#19
At the time did the average matelot have any CAC training?

I wasn't in the situation these kids were in (having left 20 years previously) so I have no other comment. However, I'm sure British Legions, RNA clubs. NAAFIs, etc from Lands End to John O'Groats (and indeed this forum) are full of piss-stained 'veterans' of hoorhouses in BAOR who can give you a blow-by-blow account of how they would have defended the neatly piled stacks of blankets that were their personal fiefdom againt GSFG, IRN, IRA, ITN, GFA. and all others.
I don't know, it was the first time I'd had it as a MATT and not as a pre-deployment brief.

I personally don't see a problem with a "what if thread", I can't say I'd have done anything differently with regards to the getting captured. The conduct of the matelots afterwards was definitely lacking but as I don't know what if any CAC training they receive it would be wrong to blame them as they may not have been taught the "right" way to act, I seem to recall the marines conducting themselves fairly well however.
 
#20
I don't know, it was the first time I'd had it as a MATT and not as a pre-deployment brief.

I personally don't see a problem with a "what if thread", I can't say I'd have done anything differently with regards to the getting captured. The conduct of the matelots afterwards was definitely lacking but as I don't know what if any CAC training they receive it would be wrong to blame them as they may not have been taught the "right" way to act, I seem to recall the marines conducting themselves fairly well however.
Yup - they definitely did not cover themselves in glory in the aftermath, and as I understand it 2SL paid the price.

But I'm pissed, I actually quite like the RN, and I fell like an e-scrap with any blazer/grey flannel clad, NDM-hungry old twat who would fight to the last round of other mens' lives.

Mair drink!!!
 

Latest Threads

New Posts