Did the army consider using German equipment?

I’m sensing Ukraine.

always been viewed by Germany as the Breadbasket of Europe.

that’s why they’ve always been keen to have it under the control of Germany/Prussia/Greater Germany/EU.

there’s a lovely lecture Christopher Hitchens does on the foreign Policy of the EU is a continuation of pre War German foreign policy.

I suspect the EU didn’t realise when they started meddling in the Ukraine that the Russian bear was sleeping at the time.

Operation ‘Battle of Kharkov 5th time lucky’ looms, Bundeswehr 1st Panzer Div spearhead for EURO Circus.

Nothing can go wrong, Ivan will fold this time.
 
Having lied to myself I that I would leave this thread alone, I have to say I am always amazed at what the French nation went through in 1914 - 18.

I cannot help but admire how desperately close it was pushed to the brink, but managed hold on. It seems like at times nothing but sheer grit kept them going at times.

While 1917 was a nadir, compare that to the russian collapse, and more importantly what is notable is that despite the set backs and casualties of battles of the frontiers, the failures and disappointments of '15, verdun and the Somme, Nivelle's offensives and the mutinies of '17, they did pick themselves up and get back into the battle.

That Britain took much of the heavy lifting from late 1917 onwards really doesn't detract from that.

Sous-Lieutenant Raymond Jubert of 151eme Regiment d'infanterie de Ligne wrote the line which for me encapsulated the war greater than anyone else:

"They will never be able to make us do it again another day. That would be to misunderstand what it cost us. They will have to resort to those who have not lived out these days."
 
Funny thing the ww1 Germans coveted the Lewis gun for its ability to spray 47 bullets from a air cooled lmg. In ww2 the British coveted the mp38/40 for its ability to spit fire.

Verdun gets a mention a few posts back, one result of the Somme offensive was the ability to draw German artillery away from the French. Verdun was planned to bleed the French of manpower, Our fighting spirit infused with dominon troops kept France in the war. The sacrifices of Indians, Kiwis Diggers Canucks Newfoundlanders Saffers impressed the Germans who almost broke defending the Somme.
With the introduction of new tactics new weaponry and of course eastern front troops infusing the western armies the Germans were a foe to be respected.


Apologies for thread drift
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
France and WWI?

always a shock to note.

At wars end,
60% of men aged 18-40, were either dead or permanently disabled.
52% of men mobilised during the war were killed or wounded.
 
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Zhopa

LE
France and WWI?

always a shock to note.

At wars end,
60% of men aged 18-40, were either dead or permanently disabled.
52% of men mobilised during the war were killed or wounded.

Yes those are truly startling proportions. Is there a source where we can look at the figures behind them?
 
France and WWI?

always a shock to note.

At wars end,
60% of men aged 18-40, were either dead or permanently disabled.
52% of men mobilised during the war were killed or wounded.
The flu pandemic was a bugger.
 
*Likewise WW2 - Where the records show British troops got up to far less criminality than US etc - Chiefly because they were kept busy out of the line - no one (ok few) got to drift off unsupervised**.
Lol, Pop once told of the great bank heist of Licata or Palermo when he and a few others from the halftrack thought to strike it rich using a Bazooka on a Italian bank safe. He said the results were

Everyone deafened for 2 days from firing it indoors
Most of the cash incinerated
Mussolini Lira was worthless except as shit tickets
1SG had them on every shit detail until they went to Tidworth during the pause for D-Day
 
Having lied to myself I that I would leave this thread alone, I have to say I am always amazed at what the French nation went through in 1914 - 18.
1870 wasnt exactly nice for them either, IIRC out of a total force of 2 million they lost around 1 million to various reasons (138K KIA, 143K WIA, 723K POW) or % 50(+/-)

Apparently a French reservist in say Strasbourg would travel to his regimental depot which could be as far away as Corsica, get outfitted, and make his way back to Strasbourg AO to rejoin his regiment hopefully before the Prussian arrived.
 
Lol, Pop once told of the great bank heist of Licata or Palermo when he and a few others from the halftrack thought to strike it rich using a Bazooka on a Italian bank safe. He said the results were

Everyone deafened for 2 days from firing it indoors
Most of the cash incinerated
Mussolini Lira was worthless except as shit tickets
1SG had them on every shit detail until they went to Tidworth during the pause for D-Day

**** me somebody really had it in for him.

The only good thing bout Tidworth is it isnt Bulford
 
1914 wasn’t a good time for the Germans or Russians either in 1914 at either of the Masurian lakes.

The Austrians didn't have a good time either, taking a stuffing off the Serbs and being at the bottom of the Eastern Front food chain.

@moggy_cattermole Moggy, now I agree with that completely. I do have a sneaking regard for the French Army of WW1, despite having a large proportion of fools and idiots set in command of them the ordinary poilu was an amazing article. It's only a shame their sons weren't up to it in 1940.
 
Ref bold exactly

Which is also why when discussing Britains Dinosaur donkey commanders and their pointless attacks the same context needs applying.

1916 Haig did not want to attack at all - he knew the army wasnt ready - he wanted to wait until 1917.
France however was insistent on a 1916 offensive - understaderbly so given that parts of it were in German hands

1917 - Paschendale - Mud - went on long past sensible etc - True if you look at it in isolation - not true if you look at it in the context of keeping the Germans far to busy to cause mischief on the French part of the line as that had sufferred a catastrophic collapse of morale

ref the French mutiny - Think of all the officers sat in Chateaus drinking wine - didnt care about the men false hoods levelled at Haig and British officers in General. Particuarly left in the trenches to rot myths


In reality - British units were in the trenches for a few days at a time then rotated
French (and German) Divisions stayed in the line until combat inneffective and were then swapped out

when out of the line British officers (still) took a great deal of care of their troops - organised activities* organised leave etc
French officers buggerred off home - leaving the rank and file to fend for itself in barracks - this is a major trigger for 1917.

*Likewise WW2 - Where the records show British troops got up to far less criminality than US etc - Chiefly because they were kept busy out of the line - no one (ok few) got to drift off unsupervised**.

** Of course much of this may stem from Wellingtons army which typicallty couldnt be trusted as far as a very small child could throw it
Then there was the technology applied to try to overcome the obstacles - such as the flame throwers - one excavated by the Time team: Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector - Wikipedia Secret terror weapon of the Somme battle 'discovered'
 
I do have a sneaking regard for the French Army of WW1, despite having a large proportion of fools and idiots set in command of them the ordinary poilu was an amazing article. It's only a shame their sons weren't up to it in 1940.
Mine is a mixture of that and contempt. After all they did engineer it! Moreover what the average soldier went through was something else. Their sons in 1940 were probably up to it, but I mean, I really can’t get over the fact that the French just sat in their Maginot line with their thumbs up their bums and brains in neutral. Any German worth their salt has admitted that had the allies attackEd immediately post Poland the germans would have been stuffed. Rule 1 don’t declare war and then sit about doing nothing.
 

QRK2

LE
Mine is a mixture of that and contempt. After all they did engineer it! Moreover what the average soldier went through was something else. Their sons in 1940 were probably up to it, but I mean, I really can’t get over the fact that the French just sat in their Maginot line with their thumbs up their bums and brains in neutral. Any German worth their salt has admitted that had the allies attackEd immediately post Poland the germans would have been stuffed. Rule 1 don’t declare war and then sit about doing nothing.

It's a bit steep to paint that as only a French policy as that was, standfast elements of the RN, also the British approach up to April/May 1940.
 
The strategic vision was not there, a charge I think britain probably was guilty of too. Individual actions highlighted the skills of the soldiers. Both nations were forced to retreat. I do reckon if the body of France was an island similar to the UK they wouldn't have collapsed in the same way.
 
I can understand it. The French were simply drained from ww1. They had the visible evidence on their soil, something we didn't have. Also, as @moggy_cattermole points out, the strategic vision wasn't there, due to malaise at the top. Leadership and vision are the key.
When given good leadership , the French could scrap with the best. We got off Dunkirk because they held the perimeter.
 

skeetstar

Old-Salt
Funny thing the ww1 Germans coveted the Lewis gun for its ability to spray 47 bullets from a air cooled lmg. In ww2 the British coveted the mp38/40 for its ability to spit fire.

Verdun gets a mention a few posts back, one result of the Somme offensive was the ability to draw German artillery away from the French. Verdun was planned to bleed the French of manpower, Our fighting spirit infused with dominon troops kept France in the war. The sacrifices of Indians, Kiwis Diggers Canucks Newfoundlanders Saffers impressed the Germans who almost broke defending the Somme.
With the introduction of new tactics new weaponry and of course eastern front troops infusing the western armies the Germans were a foe to be respected.


Apologies for thread drift
After the war, didn't the German high command admit that defending on the Somme cost the Germans dearly, to the extent that it effectively destroyed the pre war/early war professional army. By wars end, ludendorff or some other such luminary considered the army to be little better than a militia.
 

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