Did Junior Leaders produce better soldiers than depots?

Discussion in 'The Training Wing' started by Speedy, Jan 8, 2005.

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  1. I, like many old boys here did my year (or in some cases alot more) in brats. Once I'd passed out and joined my regt depot at Buller Barracks, Aldershot I began to see just how poorly they compared to their younger bretheren. We were fitter, had better mil skills and were better prepared for joining their working units. The 11 week wonders (or was it 9?) didn't like us much, but we were usually promoted before them and the large majority of SNCO's and RSM's were ex-brats. Does anybody feel that the old Junior Leaders regts produced better soldiers or do the people who took the quick option think they were trained the best?
  2. Whilst i can understand your arguement, me being a 10 week wonderand all.
    I tend to think that whilst a lot of juniors come out into real army do seem switched on there are also others who are still thick as mince. But that being said the 10 week wonders still had a long way to catch up about what the forces was all about.
    It is true a lot more juniors make promotion earlier than there counter parts and they do seem to stay in general a lot longer in the forces.
    The only things that the juniors lack is experience in the civvy world as an adult. So in answer to your question i feel the juniors are more indoctrinated into the forces that gives tem a head start and they dont really know about the civvy life side of things, which is just a minor failing. Where as the 10 week wonders lack full knowledge of the forces,(at least in the first year anyway) but do have a bit more life experience before they join.
  3. Yes and no. Many of the older lads who just went through the depots were more mature, had experience of other jobs and adult civvy life. Juniors came right from school.
  4. Can't speak for Junior Leaders, but as a Junior that spent my whole time in the Regt Depot I would say that the year spent there before R-Coy made me a far better soldier. On joining R-Coy we got some hassle from the staff, who disliked the sudden influx of new bods into their sections, and one or two recruits who thought that on joining the Plt at an advanced stage we had somehow got an easy ride they seemed to forget that we had spent a year there already.

    Buller Bks, that was the RCT Depot up the road from memory.......sent a few of our cast offs in that direction I recall :wink:
  5. Personally going through brats just increased the level of brainwashing (sorry, 'indoctrination'!). As has been well pointed out, going into the army at 16 with no experience of working in civvy street (apart from a paper round!), is a distinct advantage to the training process. Does bugger all for you when you leave of course....talk about feeling like a fish out of water!!!

    So some pro's, some con's. At some point we all have to get a real job and blend in with civ div, so i think from my own experience i think joining later is a better call, get some life experience first - then you'll realise exactly what you're missing when you're stagging on at 2 in the morning freezing your nads off!!
  6. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    I have found Brats gave us a better foundation than the 12 week recruit. The majority of SNCO's and Warrant Officers came from the Juniors ranks and the Officers, LE's, came from Juniors. But that's not say recruits don't have similar success.
  7. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    You can usually spot an ex brat by the shape of their beret. It has that shaved, moulded, starched, stapled, sewn and hairsprayed look of being two sizes too small with the badge just behind their left ear......or is that an ex-cadet? :D
  8. Brat's or Bratus Apprentie!!! the dogs gonads!!! we started with an intake of 72. By the time we got to pass out almost 2 years later there were 18 of us. Weeded out the crap and left with the cream. Which is what is not happening today unfortunately!!!! We left brats with Class 2 trade, JMQC and EPC, I was a class 1 at 19yrs old. Yes apprentices and juniors produce good soldiers who in the most part go on to be seniors and officers given the chance. The 5 commisions a year tends to cock that up a bit but they stay the course and do it well.
    Bring them back and get some more of the youth in to the system!!!!!!!
    Either that or bring back conscription!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:
  9. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    What happened to you then DD, got in under the radar or did you enjoy all thos reggie baths! But then again Martin-Leake house was full of ponces! :wink:
  10. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    The entire Brat College was full of ponces... :twisted:

    I never did work out what they did with them all day.
  11. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    They made them better soldiers than the 12 week chuck outs that took another year to sort their $hite out.
  12. They gave them an edchukation silly!! The simple answer is we put up with 100 times more crap than out 11 week wonder counterparts, were (for the corps troops) trained to a far higher standard than depot recruits on a larger variety of weapons. By the end of a years training we were superbly fit with a greater idea of what the army was about due to the aformention education (I had my EPC certs at 18 years old!!). For us passing out wasn't just a formality, it was earnt over a year of pain and hardship. My troop started with 45, 18 passed out the following year, and from them only 16 made it to working units. With the old junior leaders regts it was much harder for weak links to make it out of training. Anyone with character flaws or poor team skills never made it to the 6 month point. When I passed out and went to depot prior to trade training I was shocked at how poorly disiplined adult recruits were.
  13. Massively disagree with some on this

    I found ex-brats were too immature and full of themselves whlist depot bods semmed mre clued up to life, however I would point out that there were probably more wasters to the pound than an average brat intake.

    Thing with brats was they spent too long at it, 2 years then they had to start again and was far too much for some and arrogances came to play.

    I know there is the feeling that ex-brats had longer and more sucessful careers, but I reallly didn't see that, in my experience I found the opposite to be true, I can only think of a few brats still in from my time, one I know is a Sgt, but he joined before 2 others from depot I know who are Staffy and WO2 a piece

    Maybe its a corps thing ??
  14. Of course they’re what you assume to be arrogant. They have put up with training that would have made you cry and saw it out until the end. Unless you are ex JLR it will be hard for you to imagine a whole year of basic and advanced training, even before going onto trade training They are highly trained and superbly fit. I think you are mistaking arrogance with confidence.
  15. i know in the mid '80's in the Engineers , any pretence of arrogance was beasted out of you at 3TRRE where you went , generally the same day you passed out to do your B3 combat engineer training.

    the rule of thumb there was anyone who even looked like being gobby got severely "adjusted".

    ask any ex RE junior leader , come term 4 all the talk was about Gib barracks , and the horror stories that went with it. ..... the place was a f*cking beasting from start to finish.

    i was scared to talk to anyone with a tape when i got to my unit , in case i found myself involved in an impromptu "PT session for one".

    never did me any harm ....... according to my shrink.