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Did anyone notice?

#1
During all the ridiculous hoo hah about cap badges post the 2020 announcement did anyone notice the bigger hidden shocker?

I hadn't until a brief by D Combat staff.

Within the Adaptive Bdes Inf Bns will only have two Platoons per Rifle Coy.

So, aside from 16Bde Units, the 6 x AI Bns and 3 x PM Bns all the others will only have 6 Rifle Pls.

To me that's more shocking than a few Bns going.

As I understand it once given the manpower caps D Combat had wanted a further reduction in Bns, but weren't allowed as it was "political" so had no choice but to have loads of none Bns.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#2
But surely they'd have to re-write the whole way the Army fights? Attacking 3 to 1 etc
 
#3
Wow. Reminds me of Mussolini's similar tactic in the early years of WW2. Having politically committed himself to sending troops to support ze Germans, but informed that there weren't enough divisions to do so without critically weakening other fronts, he ordered that each Division should lose a regiment : a third of its strength. Genius.

Will companies in the adaptive force still be commanded by a Major? If so, great. You Platoon Command as a first tour, and around nine years later are rewarded for sticking around through a succession of staff jobs by commanding... two platoons. Mega!

Is a similar sleight-of-hand being applied to FSp platoons?
 
#4
Apparently F Sp Coy got away with it, but retaining Mortar Platoons was touch and go.

On Ops where will your third Pl come from? That's right - the T.A. (Or more likely another Bn in the Adaptive force.)
 
#5
Well, the solution that Mussolini chose was to have the missing 3rd element provided by Blackshirts. I assume that announcement of a unique new role for the TA is imminent?

Sounds quite cool to me. :)
 
#7
Well, the solution that Mussolini chose was to have the missing 3rd element provided by Blackshirts. I assume that announcement of a unique new role for the TA is imminent?

Sounds quite cool to me. :)
And logical. After all does not the text book say to fight 2 up and 1 reserve?

I'll be the fat knacker at the back of Coy reserve....


Mussolini was quite the visionary. He pioneered PFI as well
 
#8
And logical. After all does not the text book say to fight 2 up and 1 reserve?
I can just see the plan. "I will deploy my reserve as long as it's at a weekend, it's not raining, it's not cup-final weekend & the missus hasn't asked them to go shopping/do some gardening/spend some time with her & the kids rather than playing at soldiers then going to the bar" :wink:
 
#9
In the security business, most security companies employ a system called "ghosting". This means that if you are contracted to supply 150 staff, you actuals only supply, say, 125 staff but you charge for 150. It is quite common and all of the security companies do it.

Of course, sometimes they get caught out, as G4S did recently. As far as the army is concerned however the new manpower levels will also mean less money being spent on weapons, equipment and ammunition.

And a higher possibility of losing battles.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
During all the ridiculous hoo hah about cap badges post the 2020 announcement did anyone notice the bigger hidden shocker?

I hadn't until a brief by D Combat staff.

Within the Adaptive Bdes Inf Bns will only have two Platoons per Rifle Coy.

So, aside from 16Bde Units, the 6 x AI Bns and 3 x PM Bns all the others will only have 6 Rifle Pls.

To me that's more shocking than a few Bns going.

As I understand it once given the manpower caps D Combat had wanted a further reduction in Bns, but weren't allowed as it was "political" so had no choice but to have loads of none Bns.
My understanding was that companies would now consist of two regular platoons and one TA platoon. The idea seems to be to have the TA fully integrated into the regular battalions. Whether the new TACOS will allow this to work is another question.
 
#12
I was briefed that the TA Pls would remain in TA Bns, but would be cut across for deployments and the odd exercise. A Regular Bn would struggle to manage 3 x TA Pls, what with them essentially just passing each other at the gate on Fri and Sun evenings.

TA Bns are being retained as they can cadreise training and also can be deployed en mass for stuff line TOSCA.

Either way, unless the TA recruiting miracle happens (and despite massive investment it hadn't yet) and employers suddenly become happy to routinely wave staff of for weeks or months or until the feckless unemployed suddenly decide that APFAs are entirely consistent with a life of Jeremy Kyle, pot noodle and binge wanking it isn't going to happen.
 
#13
I was briefed that the TA Pls would remain in TA Bns, but would be cut across for deployments and the odd exercise. A Regular Bn would struggle to manage 3 x TA Pls, what with them essentially just passing each other at the gate on Fri and Sun evenings.
Change the Bns working week to Wed-Sun, then.
 
#14
But surely they'd have to re-write the whole way the Army fights? Attacking 3 to 1 etc
No - we have things in threes so we can achieve the rule of threes: assault, suppress, reserve. In an ideal world we'd have a rule of fours: assault, suppress, reserve, echelon.

Whilst we do broadly think of a three to one attack ratio our structure isn't predicated on that. Three sections in a Pl attacking one section only works if the enemy are structured like you.

If the enemy has 12 man sections, what do we attack that with?

However, assault, suppress, reserve is how we fight. A two Pl Coy will struggle to train as it fights.

If I was an OC with a two Pl Coy, in the field I'd go for four "multiples". A three team multiple can achieve the rule of three, a four multiple Coy can achieve the rule of four.
 
#16
Great idea on paper as a way of inter grating the TA. Will never work in reality.

I think the writing is on the wall for anyone who doesn't join a 16bde unit in future.

Entire bn's will be left to rot with minimal training, you watch.
 
#17
No - we have things in threes so we can achieve the rule of threes: assault, suppress, reserve. In an ideal world we'd have a rule of fours: assault, suppress, reserve, echelon.

Whilst we do broadly think of a three to one attack ratio our structure isn't predicated on that. Three sections in a Pl attacking one section only works if the enemy are structured like you.

If the enemy has 12 man sections, what do we attack that with?

However, assault, suppress, reserve is how we fight. A two Pl Coy will struggle to train as it fights.

If I was an OC with a two Pl Coy, in the field I'd go for four "multiples". A three team multiple can achieve the rule of three, a four multiple Coy can achieve the rule of four.
Just wait until the bn only has 2 coys, then you'll have the rule of four - spin it well enough and it could be seen as a improvement!

Of course, there is the minor issue of needing an entire division to attack the enemy's company, but never mind that...
 
#19
My coy's only had 2 rifle platoons since the post-Herrick re-orbat. I've heard all the Jock battalions will be reduced to approx. 450 blokes so perhaps that's how? I just assumed we'd get beefed up to 3 for PDT as our recruiting's centralised though wonder if it will be a full T.A. platoon instead.
 
#20
My coy's only had 2 rifle platoons since the post-Herrick re-orbat. I've heard all the Jock battalions will be reduced to approx. 450 blokes so perhaps that's how? I just assumed we'd get beefed up to 3 for PDT as our recruiting's centralised though wonder if it will be a full T.A. platoon instead.
These changes aren't taking place until post 2014.

The manning of a Jock Bn will hinge in their role, not their cap badge. I'd they are AI, PM or Air assault they'll have 3 Pls per Coy. If not, they won't
 

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