Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by mongoose9, Dec 16, 2006.

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  1. DETAPO.
    1. In my view conceptually flawed.

    2. A step too far taking the regular system and without thought transposing it onto the TA.

    3. The time commitment of an officer is higher than a soldier. Only enxperience of the TA will show an individual if he has the time and inclination to commit - hence the high drop out in the first year.

    4. The experience in the south west is that everyone has dropped out from the selection weekend two years ago.

    5. Are there any DETAPOs who have got through the system and are now serving or is it still jam tomorrow.

    BB accepted the post needed rewriting but the point still stands whether anyone has got through yet.
  2. what a load of random bollocks.

    Have another go and read it out loud before you hit the SUBMIT button.
  3. Yes, I know of several who went through that route and have turned out quite well. Performance on the TACC system along with RCB Brief and Mainboard all assess whether a Civvy straight off the street has what it takes to be TA Officer.

    Why should they need to be an OR first? It's not a requirement for the regs. The selection system works quite well, and continual assessment is quite effective, a lot of people will self select out for a variety of reasons. Boils down to them realising that they can't meet the time/protracted effort/physical/mental demands or they simply don't enjoy it. Perhaps it is miss sold to some people? I know some in the early days of DETAPO that felt cast adrift and didn't get much support from their units.

    Initial entry is down to the OC sqn's/CO's discretion, the Regt 2IC and delegated persons take responsibility at my end from what I understand. Progression depends upon the feedback from their CMS(R) where they will then attend Mod 2. Module 2 seems to work quite well and will certainly give people a good idea as to whether they have what it takes or not. The RCB system typically comes into effect here and also helps people self select in/out.
  4. A problem with the system, which I am not sure of my position on, is that a PO can go all through the DETAPO system (taking well over a year of their life) up to MOD3, pass that, but then not go to TACC because of TAB. Although I feel that the TAB process is important, I question its ability to fail candidates who have already shown leadership ability (not just potential) at MOD 3. However admittedly if it is an academic failure that is something different, though the academic requirements of TAB are not exactly exacting.
  5. Well we are all entitled to express an opinion. But if that opinion is wind and pish, stand by...

    DETAPO course was designed mostly by TA Officers - several of whom post on here regularly - working hand-in-glove with the (then) OC Dettingen Coy at RMAS, overseen and ultimately approved by LAND, tested in several Bdes by TA personnel, fine-tuned by those same personnel and now as close to the finished article as makes no odds after FIVE years of trial and error.

    Some of us might find your "without thought" comment rather offensive.

    So we need to wait till retirement point before we know which route to Service we should have chosen?

    The minimum time comment of an Officer - generally speaking - is higher than that of a soldier, again, generally speaking. However, there are many soldiers who put in masses more effort than that generalisation would suggest - not least the soldiers who train the future officers in the OTWs, some of whom are putting in well over 100 days a year. Many of them contributed to the development of DETAPO as well. In fact I can think of a number of (now) WO1s and CSgts who might also find your "without thought" comment rather offensive.

    I recommend you read a book called, Hard Facts, Dangerous Half Truths & Total Nonsense by Jeffrey Pfeffer and Robert Sutton Amazon Link

    There may well be none remaining from your selection weekend but that does not mean that the system is failing. In fact it may well indicate that the system has got it spot on. Wiki Link

    Yes there are. I even know 2 who were promoted Captain this year.

    And alongside this we continue to train Unit POs and UOTC POs using the same system, continue to test and adjust but - sadly - continue having to justify ourselves to the same old, same old mud-slinging. Give it a rest.
  6. and the success of the process is laid bare, you (having been involved in the process from almost the beginning) know of 2 DETAPO who have made it to captain in 5 years, not exactly a fantastic strike rate is it? do we have actual hard figures available yet to show how many of the captains promoted this year came from each of the three routes? I think it would put to an end once and for good the arguments about which route is better.

    the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter which route is followed provided the end product is a new officer who is armed with the very basic knowledge and skills to allow him/her not to feck up too much in the first couple of years and then progress through the ranks.

    What does concern me slightly is that what maybe started out as someones pet project has been transformed into the DS solution to the problem of getting young subbies into the TA at the expense of the tried and tested routes.

    In no way do I knock the concept of the TA taking back training of its officer cadets form the OTC's, I feel it was overdue, and I also don't disagree with the concept of DETAPO but I am yet to be convinced that the DE bias has been justified.

    again you sort of miss the point but bring it out eloquently without realising... DETAPOs do not put in 100 days a year and are very probably ignorant of the massive commitment shown by some in the TA units but particularly the amount of paperwork and out of hours preperation done by officers. When they arrive at their units their commitment will very likely increase rapidly to match that of an OTW instructor. A culture shock if not already used to it from service in the ranks.

    This can of course be mitigated if DETAPOS are given a frank and honest picture of what it is they are joining as I'm sure you will agree that the experience of a student on offr trg modules is pretty much action packed, every minute filled with well planned, well taught and well executed trg with handpicked DS dedicated to their jobs and keen eager fellow students. If only this transferred to the line units...

    can you confirm that they are made fully aware of what the majority of their time will be spent doing? my personal (limited as in I've only met one) experience of a commissioned DETAPO is that he was like a rabbit in the headlights when he arrived, struggled to get to grips with the G1 thing and couldn't afford to give as much time as he would like to the TA, which resulted in him taking a leave of abscence shortly after his second pip was presented so that he could decide if it was really for him. Compare this to the three of us who joined as soldiers, were able to give a commitment level that suited us while we got a taste for the TA and one year down the line were invited to attend an officer cadet briefing weekend, we went into the whole thing with our eyes well and truly open and also knew exactly what was required from us in return for the privilege of commanding soldiers. 6 years down the line we are still as commited as when we joined and have coped far better with the transition and change of pace from a soldier/officer under training to a commissioned officer.

    {edited to add...}

    the reason he struggled with the G1 thing is that he was also struggling to learn the G4 thing and the G3 thing whilst having his first experince of providing the G7 thing.

    Those of us with soldiering experience had a fairly decent grounding in G3 had been involved at one level or another in preparing G7 before and had suffered enough at the hands of badly planned G4 to know that it mattered, so we could dedicate the time to learning the G1

  7. Now that is grossly disingenuous. I know two personally. I did NOT say that there are only 2. And civilian to Captain in 4 years (neither did I say it had taken them 5 years to make Capt) under the current MS system I would say is fairly exceptional.

    Comparative statistics are available via the chain of command to show how each of the 3 routes are performing vis. Gp A Commission rates.

    In short, DETAPO has been commended, UOTC is being "encouraged" to perform better - at least as far as Gp A commissions are concerned - and of the 86 major units in UK less than half have produced a newly commissioned Officer in the last 4 years so the UPO stream seems also to need a degree of encouragement.

    Funnily enough, no-one of any seniority is making any noises whatsoever about which route is "better" in terms of training. All are believed necessary and considerable weight remains behind all of them to ensure that no taps feeding the officer pool are turned off, regardless of how paltry the flow is from any of them.

    Much noise is being made as to where the preferred entry point should be and so it is nice to see that msr hits the nail on the head as usual. It is recruitment that is the problem, not training.

    DETAPO is a training scheme, not a recruitment scheme.
  8. Out of interest what is the number of DETAPOs that are now commissioned?
  9. msr

    msr LE

    And how many empty LSNs for Lts/Capts are there?

  10. Hmmm.... I'm in the DETAPO system at the moment as a PO, and I've already put in 60 or 70 days so far this year, with the expectation of doing quite a lot more next year. But hey, apparently that isn't much of a commitment :roll:
  11. Are these required training days or you putting your name down for everything?
  12. Well there are probably some; a figure I recently heard from several fairly reliable sources (although this may be circular reporting) was that the TA has 2000 majors and 500 Lieutenants (2nd or full I do not know).
  13. I put myself forward for DETAPO in October of last year and then went for an information day in the December. The schedule was discussed for the following year but we were told this was not set in stone. Then when i attended my first weekend in the January the schedule was set in stone. There was no flexibility for people who work weekends or shifts and it was only suitable for those working Monday to Friday 9-5. Rather than doing one part of the course as a 2 week block as TA Private recruits do (i think it was TAFS) this was spread across a number of weekends. This immediately reduced my ability to continue training for the rest of the year. There were a few of us who asked to do this as a block but we were told that this was the way the 2005/2006 training year had been designed following feedback from previous years. However, there were more people requesting the 2 week block than the weekends. Unfortunately i had to quit after this because i would have been unable to continue the system with such an inflexible system.
  14. .......
  15. Were you not told that you could attend any of the training for your phase, with any brigade anywhere in the UK if you managed to make contact yourself? So if the bods up in Scotland had a weekend, or two week course with a free slot you could be jimmied in there, same goes for LONDIST or 49, or 15.

    It took quite an interesting character from 49 to teach me that one. Infact I think they ran the most informed net when it came to such training.

    I gave it up myself due to missing key weekends putting me back a fair bit and also turning up at the TAC for transport to an event to be told that none had been arranged.. again. Also being an OR is just more interesting and fun.