Deserting to fight

#1
During WW2 nearly 5000 soldiers deserted the Irish Army in order to join the allies. They were dishonourably discharged and Upon returning to Ireland, denied pensions and access to certain jobs. The Minister of Defence is seeking advice on how to put this right, saying that in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was equivalent to moral bankruptcy.
Pardon on way for Irish who fought, says Shatter - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 25, 2012

About bloody time.
 
#2
Agreed.

My granddad crossed the Irish sea to land in Liverpool in 1938. He wasn't Irish Defence Forces, but some of the lads he came over with were. Many of them had fought in the 1st World War, and didn't trust the Germans as far as they could throw them, and since the Irish Government of the time wanted to keep it's neutrality, they believed that joining the British Army was the only way to truly defend Ireland itself.

My grandma took a lot of stick when local folks knew what he had done, and it got so bad that my granddad brought the whole family over to England.

Because of the hatred of certain sections of Irish society, even in the face of the overwhelming evidence of the atrocities committed by the Germans, he never got the chance to return to his homeland. He remained in self imposed exile in England until his death in 1968, rather than have his family face abuse from ignorant people who owed him, and those like him, their freedom.

This has been too long coming, and it's too late for most of the men who selflessly decided to defend their own country the only way that was available to them.
 
#3
Wasnt this discussed a few weeks ago on here?
 
#4
During WW2 nearly 5000 soldiers deserted the Irish Army in order to join the allies. They were dishonourably discharged and Upon returning to Ireland, denied pensions and access to certain jobs. The Minister of Defence is seeking advice on how to put this right, saying that in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was equivalent to moral bankruptcy.
Pardon on way for Irish who fought, says Shatter - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 25, 2012

About bloody time.
And naturally we can expect more desertions from Irelands army to go around the world and sort out the various massacres occuring today?
A bit of history, the holocaust didnt happen until halfway through the war and I doubt many if any micks joined up because of what was happening to the Jews.
 
#6
And naturally we can expect more desertions from Irelands army to go around the world and sort out the various massacres occuring today?
A bit of history, the holocaust didnt happen until halfway through the war and I doubt many if any micks joined up because of what was happening to the Jews.
A bit of history, the pogroms and death squads existed before half way through the war. They are part of the holocaust. And Shatter didn't say they joined because of the holocaust. He stated the Irish position was one of moral bankruptcy because of the fact that the holocaust happened, not that Southern Irish joined because of the holocaust.
 
#7
It's been done elsewhere on arrse!


As a footnote though, perhaps the British will now, in a tit for tat move, reprieve the Irish septic William Joyce, shame we can't unhang the ****!
 
#8
A bit of history, the pogroms and death squads existed before half way through the war. They are part of the holocaust. And Shatter didn't say they joined because of the holocaust. He stated the Irish position was one of moral bankruptcy because of the fact that the holocaust happened, not that Southern Irish joined because of the holocaust.
Depends on your version of the holocaust. I view it as genocide to completely eliminate a race not casual murder that can be applied to anyone.
Will Shatter now be clammering to stick his oar in the various genocides that happen around the world? Or with the boggies continue to morally bankrupt.
 
#9
This is good news.
Although I have a question. Why has it taken so long? Many of those men fought the good fight against an evil, evil person. The fact that they joined the British army is irrelevant. They (the Allies) defeated Hitler. For that they should have been honoured. Imagine what the world would be like today, if Hitler was allowed to continue doing what he did.
It’s sad that many of those men will never know that they have been pardoned, but at least it has been done Better late than never I suppose, and maybe their families will take some peace from it.
Because they were deserters.
The fact the joined the British army is very relevant especially as the PM of Northern Ireland at the time was suggesting invading the south.
Do you think all the outraged on this and the other thread about it, would be so forgiving if a British soldier deserted today to fight in Syria? Then expect the goverment to welcome them back with a state job?
 
#11
#13

Sixty

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#14
Deserters being punished eh? How outrageous.
I'm quite sure that even you can recognise that blokes leaving a peace time army to go and fight the Nazis were of quite a different breed to those normally classed as deserters.
 
#15
I'm quite sure that even you can recognise that blokes leaving a peace time army to go and fight the Nazis were of quite a different breed to those normally classed as deserters.
Not really. That twat Joe Glenton could argue he had the moral courage to not get caught up in a war that is costing British lives and money. I dont remember to much sympathy for him. What the Irish soldiers did, was great for us, there is no reason why the Irish Goverment should have taking the same view.
The British may have posed a threat to the South of Ireland and people deserted to fight for them, its hardly surprising the boggies werent very happy about it.
Do you think all those pretending to be outraged, would be so forgiving if people deserted the British army to fight the various nasty regimes around the world? I very much doubt it.
 

Sixty

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#16
Glenton fucked off to Australia while AWOL so that's a very weak argument indeed. We've quite a history of lads going overseas to fight against totalitarianism although I grant you that not all of them deserted.

I'm not particularly or even slightly outraged but these were very brave Irish men and should not be stigmatised as cowards when they were anything but.
 
#17
Glenton fucked off to Australia while AWOL so that's a very weak argument indeed. We've quite a history of lads going overseas to fight against totalitarianism although I grant you that not all of them deserted.

I'm not particularly or even slightly outraged but these were very brave Irish men and should not be stigmatised as cowards when they were anything but.
Its not a weak argument at all. What diference would it have made if he stayed in the UK? What difference does it make to the British army if he deserted because he didnt want to go to Afghanistan or if he went to Burma to fight their goverment? He still deserted.

I don't think anyone has said they are cowards, From the British point of view, they were great, from the Irish point they left an army that fed and clothed them, to join an army of a country that "may" have posed a threat to Ireland and had 20 years before had been a bit rough with the paddies. Then people think it strange the Irish state decided to exempt them state jobs and pension?
 

Sixty

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#18
Its not a weak argument at all. What diference would it have made if he stayed in the UK? What difference does it make to the British army if he deserted because he didnt want to go to Afghanistan or if he went to Burma to fight their goverment? He still deserted.

I don't think anyone has said they are cowards, From the British point of view, they were great, from the Irish point they left an army that fed and clothed them, to join an army of a country that "may" have posed a threat to Ireland and had 20 years before had been a bit rough with the paddies. Then people think it strange the Irish state decided to exempt them state jobs and pension?
I've bolded the key bit. He only found the excuse about Afghanistan after pissing it up in Oz and being brought back to mil law. I call that a very weak argument indeed.

The other point is that those men were punished sine die after it became clear what atrocities had occurred. Shameful.
 
#19
I've bolded the key bit. He only found the excuse about Afghanistan after pissing it up in Oz and being brought back to mil law. I call that a very weak argument indeed.

The other point is that those men were punished sine die after it became clear what atrocities had occurred. Shameful.
I know he's a cowardly shit, the point was he can justify it to suit himself and his legion of anti war mates.

The second point, The Irish didnt join because of the holocaust (it might have been many reasons but not to prevent atrocities probably wasnt at the top of the list) and if the Nazis hadnt committed any atrocities would it have been alright for the Irish state to punish the deserters then?
 

Sixty

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#20
As pointed out above, they fought because Ireland may have been next. The Holocaust was mentioned because these men were proved correct in hindsight but were still denied employment etc for the rest of their days.

You seem to believe that this was fitting?
 
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