Derby Trophy

#1
Congratulations to Liverpool UOTC for winning the Derby Trophy (42 NW Brigade infantry skills competition). Congratulations also to Manchester & Salford UOTC for picking up second and third with particularly hearty congratulations to the third place team as they were an all-girl section.

Fairly embarrassing for the remaining 9 TA teams though, especially as they included at least 4 infantry teams.
 
#2
The_51 said:
Congratulations to Liverpool UOTC for winning the Derby Trophy (42 NW Brigade infantry skills competition). Congratulations also to Manchester & Salford UOTC for picking up second and third with particularly hearty congratulations to the third place team as they were an all-girl section.

Fairly embarrassing for the remaining 9 TA teams though, especially as they included at least 4 infantry teams.
Who have more serious things to worry about, like deploying to Iraq.

msr
 
#3
Not an excuse. Surely readying for a deployment should mean that their skill levels are heightened?
 
#4
what msr means, but is too polite to tell you, is that the soldiers who would normally kick your arrse back to your dirty digs have far more pressing engagements in their training/ops year than playing rupert with you.
 
#5
Where can we view the results/ and writeups on the competition?
Ta
 
#6
The_51 said:
Not an excuse. Surely readying for a deployment should mean that their skill levels are heightened?
we have a limited time left to us before deployment unlike yourselves who are exempt and will probably bin it before you do have to go anywhere. we would rather spend our remaining time with our families rather than competitions for fecks sake.

in a month or so's time you can come and play with us to your hearts content but in the mean time get back to your books you maggot. the real soldiers are busy working to support their families :evil:
 
#7
fusilier50 said:
we would rather spend our remaining time with our families rather than competitions for fecks sake
I completely agree with your priorities however, I'm not sure what it is exactly that you mean? Do you mean that you did not have the time for training or that you did not have time to take part in the competition?
 
#8
The_51 said:
fusilier50 said:
we would rather spend our remaining time with our families rather than competitions for fecks sake
I completely agree with your priorities however, I'm not sure what it is exactly that you mean? Do you mean that you did not have the time for training or that you did not have time to take part in the competition?
the competition of course. i have a limited number of wknds available now so my priority must be my family. my training for deployment will begin soon so taking time away to do the Derby trophy this year was a very low priority as it is with most of my friends who will deploy with me


actually i had no grounds to get annoyed so offer my apologies but the results of the competition show the low priority TA have placed on it this year. thought it would be obvious why when a large number of the best from the TA infantry are being deployed at the same time as myself :roll:
 
#9
Apology accepted but, I should say that priority given to it by at least two of the UOTC teams was fairly low (for reasons beyond control) and although, admittedly the best of the unit were represented they very much just turned up and took part. I very much appreciate that the cream of the local TA units are currently/to be engaged on more serious duties but what does that say about the remainder of the units? I don't wish to appear to be TA-bashing here but I feel there must be a problem as this competition was not particularly specialist or gruelling. If units simply did not have the spare 8-men (or women) to put in then fair enough but to say that decent performances were not made as the best of the unit were not available does not really wash as a fair attempt should be made by even a newly qualified recruit - bearing in mind the now increasing deployability of the TA.
 
#10
Look, if the OTCs want to put in their Cambrian Patrol teams then they are going to do well aren't they?

What else where the OTCs doing that weekend? Supporting a Nationwide Comms Ex? Major Log Ex? Artillery concentration?

It is just another WAGI and gets in the way of training for Ops (which, I respectfully suggest, have very little to do with Bde Mil Skills competitions)

msr
 
#11
The_51 said:
Apology accepted but, I should say that priority given to it by at least two of the UOTC teams was fairly low (for reasons beyond control) and although, admittedly the best of the unit were represented they very much just turned up and took part. I very much appreciate that the cream of the local TA units are currently/to be engaged on more serious duties but what does that say about the remainder of the units? I don't wish to appear to be TA-bashing here but I feel there must be a problem as this competition was not particularly specialist or gruelling. If units simply did not have the spare 8-men (or women) to put in then fair enough but to say that decent performances were not made as the best of the unit were not available does not really wash as a fair attempt should be made by even a newly qualified recruit - bearing in mind the now increasing deployability of the TA.
51 I can see this from both sides of the fence. While I feel that some of the OTC bashing is a little unfair (a bde comp is a bde comp and bloody well done for winning), it can be hard to get TA teams out for a number of the reasons listed. For example my regt had hoped to put many teams in for a forthcoming mil skills comp, but will put in one of very junior soldier sin the end. this is because the rest of the regiment has courses on at the moment and cannot do the beat up trg. as you point out some otcs can just turn up, but you must appreciate that the otc wallahs spend a lot of their time doing this sort of stuff and can just pitch up.

with particular reference to your 'what does this say about the rest'. You have no rank disqualifications, as the soldiers available to group A units for these exercises, if not on ops, courses, or family work commitments, will be the very young and inexperienced (if admittedly keen) or those so old and bold it may well kill them. the more experienced private soldiers (the bulk of the teams) are the ones who have been hit for ops, and if not there now could hardly be expected to get excited about a combat bimble.

Simply put, pre-Bliar this would have been more of an achievement. At the moment most TA OCs couldn't give an arrse about these comps, however worked up various bods in rhqs might get about them. They are useful for honing skills, but personnel are not going to be diverted from training to go on them. Priorities have simply shifted.
 
#12
The_51 said:
If units simply did not have the spare 8-men (or women) to put in then fair enough ...
51 - Live with it, you're a 'know nowt' and you don't have a clue about anything of any worth. TA infantry units in the NW (like most units) are pretty much fully committed to supporting/providing bayonets for Ops and have been for several weeks/months/years. Outside of anything to do with an impending departure to the sandbox and thus the need to keep families and work (rightly) sweet, there is also the need for specialist training on new weapon systems and other softer skills (can any of you grotty students drive Snatch wagons? No, neither can many TA - They have to convert). These type of things take time and are the Main Effort for all pre-deployment.
 
#13
currymunter said:
The_51 said:
If units simply did not have the spare 8-men (or women) to put in then fair enough ...
51 - Live with it, you're a 'know nowt' and you don't have a clue about anything of any worth

Currymunter, please do not try and insult me in this way as I really couldn't hold your opinion in any less regard. Your post merely agreed with the very thing that you had quoted me for and is little more than a pathetic handbag-wave. I posted initially as I thought the results did require questions to be asked which have been constructively answered and I do fully agree with what has been said. However, as anticipated this has also attracted some sore-losers which is quite sad. I wonder if they are the same people who were so dismissive of our teams on the Friday (and at arriving on stands) and who were made to eat their words on the Sunday.

Well done to all teams involved, as has been said on here, they did their best despite other commitments.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#15
The_51,

Well done to you guys. Now get back to classes and calm down. As many others have said, military skills competitions are now just a further drain on the training time available to TA units, and as such are very low on the "give a f**K-ometer". They do exist to keep people at the OTCs happy though.

The London based Courage Trophy competition has the following stands this year-

Original APWT - an archery shoot
"Tactical" stand - being DS'd by a mobile laundry and shower unit (or it might be sigs!). Strange considering Londist has some very tactically aware units in it.

Only a snapshot, but you can see why TA units (running 2 concurrent operational deployments in our case) will not be bothering, or impressed by those who do bother.

Duke
 
#16
Yup the OTC (and believe me I have reason to be a solid supporter) have the potential to do well in these competitions and vv well done to those who turn up in the cambrian patrol. In something like this an OTC (who has a potential 140 pax to chose a team from) and have no operational commitment shoud always do well. I remember when some poor b*stards from the SF reserve lot in london thought well why not compete in SPARTAN HIKE we are too busy to put in our best people or do much training but it will be a bit of a laugh and maybe we can try again next year. They didnt do well but so what. The next thing we know the HAC are crowing about it in their journal and an OTC is gobbing off about beating the S*S. SO what happens...... back into the ivory tour don't bother competing again and just enjoy being paid more than anyone else and doing decent military training. A few parallels here perhaps and a real shame.
ET
 
#17
The_51 said:
Congratulations to Liverpool UOTC for winning the Derby Trophy (42 NW Brigade infantry skills competition). Congratulations also to Manchester & Salford UOTC for picking up second and third with particularly hearty congratulations to the third place team as they were an all-girl section.

Fairly embarrassing for the remaining 9 TA teams though, especially as they included at least 4 infantry teams.
At a second reading this does come across as GP A bashing. if you were celebrating why didn't you post on the otc thread. If your teams are full of such top chaps, when are they getting their backsides through RMAS and into Gp A units, to pass on their skills?
 
#18
Fair shour Bar - Four times this chap walts on this thread. Even after conceding that NW Inf are too busy still has a dig. You think he would have better things to do, like organising the next OTC fancy dress and cheap cider party.
 
#19
Reminds me of story in the early 80's when a TA infantry mortar platoon were crowing about beating the Welsh Guards in a weekend shoot. Then someone from their own unit pointed out to them that Welsh Guards mortar platoon had a large number killed in the Falklands and were in the process of rebuilding.
 
#20
The_Duke said:
The_51,

Well done to you guys. Now get back to classes and calm down. As many others have said, military skills competitions are now just a further drain on the training time available to TA units, and as such are very low on the "give a f**K-ometer". They do exist to keep people at the OTCs happy though.

The London based Courage Trophy competition has the following stands this year-

Original APWT - an archery shoot
"Tactical" stand - being DS'd by a mobile laundry and shower unit (or it might be sigs!). Strange considering Londist has some very tactically aware units in it.

Only a snapshot, but you can see why TA units (running 2 concurrent operational deployments in our case) will not be bothering, or impressed by those who do bother.

Duke
Courage Trophy stopped being worthwhile years ago, every man and his dog has their own 'special' stands but were never maked on their basic infantry skills which they should all have posessed in addition to their own special to arm task.

Try getting motivated when you are facing another change of name and possibly cap badge, more deploymenst etc.

51 - if and when you get your comission and if you ever come and serve with a TA unit then you might learn enough to look at what we are asked to do and with what then you could be qualified to speak but at present return to your school yard.
 
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