Deployable TA soldier standards?

#1
Speaking to a lad in 4 Yorks this weekend, he mentioned you now had to be class 1 before you can deploy???

So if he is correct infantry training is rather longer than I'd seen posted on here and you have to be trained on all weapon system.

Which would imply any TA Signals soldier needs to be class 2 before they can be deployed (I'm not talking about the class 3-2 workbooks crap but the not yet implemented modular training system). [In Sigs this means they are trained - in theory - to the same level as a fresh out the factory recruit, I've not seen anything say they must be class 2 to deploy but expect it]

Any other corps changed their training along these lines??
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
polar said:
Speaking to a lad in 4 Yorks this weekend, he mentioned you now had to be class 1 before you can deploy???

So if he is correct infantry training is rather longer than I'd seen posted on here and you have to be trained on all weapon system.
Mate, there have been numerous references to this on these boards. Came in at the back end of last year from DInf that all TA Infantrymen coming out of training be Class 1 standard before they can be deployed to Afghanistan. This effectively means that they will have to achieve the same training as their Regular counterparts and so realistically will require at least a year to a year and half of dedicated training.

To give you an example of how this has impacted TA Infantry units, our battalion is down to provide IRs for our Regular battalions on Herrick 15. To that end, the next year is entirely geared towards training the Riflemen up to the requisite standard. This change has come about by the intensity of close combat faced by Infantrymen in theatre and is frankly a welcome development.
 
S

swampmonster

Guest
#3
RP578 said:
polar said:
Speaking to a lad in 4 Yorks this weekend, he mentioned you now had to be class 1 before you can deploy???

So if he is correct infantry training is rather longer than I'd seen posted on here and you have to be trained on all weapon system.
Mate, there have been numerous references to this on these boards. Came in at the back end of last year from DInf that all TA Infantrymen coming out of training be Class 1 standard before they can be deployed to Afghanistan. This effectively means that they will have to achieve the same training as their Regular counterparts and so realistically will require at least a year to a year and half of dedicated training.

To give you an example of how this has impacted TA Infantry units, our battalion is down to provide IRs for our Regular battalions on Herrick 15. To that end, the next year is entirely geared towards training the Riflemen up to the requisite standard. This change has come about by the intensity of close combat faced by Infantrymen in theatre and is frankly a welcome development.
Same in my lot (and our sister Battalion), for 13,14 & 15!.........The Jocks are in for a busy couple of Years...

I dont see a bad side to the PDT levels...can only be a good thing compared to some PDT ive seen in the past... :)
 
H

Hedphelym

Guest
#4
Well, I can say with utmost frustration that this is certainly the case, and it is precisely this which is holding me back from getting on a tour.
It's only frustrating as the guys I went through training with were deployed almost straight afer CIC, whereas I was "Left off the list" thanks to admin error. That was almost a year ago, and It seems I'll be waiting another year again to deploy. (As per the grade one training coming in for our battalion from April onwards, with Herrick 15 in 2011)

So that will make it 3 years from attestation to deployment, in my case.

Should have just joined the bloody regulars :)
 
S

swampmonster

Guest
#5
Hedphelym said:
Well, I can say with utmost frustration that this is certainly the case, and it is precisely this which is holding me back from getting on a tour.
It's only frustrating as the guys I went through training with were deployed almost straight afer CIC, whereas I was "Left off the list" thanks to admin error. That was almost a year ago, and It seems I'll be waiting another year again to deploy. (As per the grade one training coming in for our battalion from April onwards, with Herrick 15 in 2011)

So that will make it 3 years from attestation to deployment, in my case.

Should have just joined the bloody regulars :)
can you not head out with another Unit ? if your on PDT you get the funding...means you could get out this year...
 
#6
Ping! Know who you are now :p

Didn't you believe me or something?! I'm hurt you had to get validation from arrse!

Edited to add:
Atleast you got the Regiments name right when you made this post!
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
Hedphelym said:
So that will make it 3 years from attestation to deployment, in my case.

Should have just joined the bloody regulars :)
Yes, this has already been identified as being a potential problem for recruitment. As much as this may surprise the doom-mongers (ARRSE TA Boards passim) the prospect of deploying as an IR with the Regs to Afghanistan has become a major incentive in attracting young recruits.

Many chose the TA over the Regulars as they didn't want to have an Army career (although of course many change their minds once in) and some had already started on other careers. They just wanted some action and to be a part of the war that they've been watching on their evening news/Ross Kemp for the past few years. The advantage of the TA was of course that it could get you out there quicker with the minimal fuss.

With the current training package though, a recruit is looking at about two years training before being mobilised when he will then undergo a further three to four months PDT with his deploying battalion. As off putting as this might be to the young guns, I honestly believe that it is the right thing to do that will directly assist in saving lives and limbs.
 
#8
RP578 said:
Hedphelym said:
So that will make it 3 years from attestation to deployment, in my case.

Should have just joined the bloody regulars :)
Yes, this has already been identified as being a potential problem for recruitment. As much as this may surprise the doom-mongers (ARRSE TA Boards passim) the prospect of deploying as an IR with the Regs to Afghanistan has become a major incentive in attracting young recruits.

Many chose the TA over the Regulars as they didn't want to have an Army career (although of course many change their minds once in) and some had already started on other careers. They just wanted some action and to be a part of the war that they've been watching on their evening news/Ross Kemp for the past few years. The advantage of the TA was of course that it could get you out there quicker with the minimal fuss.

With the current training package though, a recruit is looking at about two years training before being mobilised when he will then undergo a further three to four months PDT with his deploying battalion. As off putting as this might be to the young guns, I honestly believe that it is the right thing to do that will directly assist in saving lives and limbs.
As a side note standards for promotion have changed also. You need to be a class 1 rifleman, completed Matts for that year, and completed a Combat Sigs Cadre to promote to lance jack and must have SAAI for Corporal - this is our Battalion atleast, i'd imagine this is happening across the whole TA Inf also?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#11
Whiskey_60 said:
The_Duke said:
In additon to the PJNCO cadre for Pte - LCpl and SCTC for LCpl to Sgt, presumably?
Of course! These were in addition to the normal courses previously required.
Sounds reasonable. We are not quite so prescriptive, but require a relevant training course in addition to the career courses before progression at each level. A LCpl will need to have picked up his PTI, CMCQ, BCDT etc before he will be a contender for promotion to Cpl, the Cpl must have gained his RMQ 1-3 before consideration for promotion to Sgt etc.

It prevents you having a raft of NCOs who are great in the field but have no ability to contribute to the wider training of the soldiers under their command.

In our case, a posting to the recruit training team is also a requirement at various stages on the career path.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Whiskey_60 said:
As a side note standards for promotion have changed also. You need to be a class 1 rifleman, completed Matts for that year, and completed a Combat Sigs Cadre to promote to lance jack and must have SAAI for Corporal - this is our Battalion atleast, i'd imagine this is happening across the whole TA Inf also?
Given that SAA is an integral part of Regular Infantry SCBC then it's really no big surprise that's happening. Naturally given the length of the courses, the TA version will have to stay as separate AASAA and Junior Tac. Radio users course was already a tick in the box as I believe was DITs.
 
#13
The_Duke said:
In our case, a posting to the recruit training team is also a requirement at various stages on the career path.
An idea I've been bleating on about for some years. ( Not a transfer to your RTT, by the way. ) Gives a clear incentive for guys to go, and ensures quality of instructors ( to a degree - I'll assume a good insert required )

My Company is well-manned but the 18 month PDT beat up is a pretty major commitment for Soldiers. AIUI there is very little scope for blokes to miss weekends or drill night training, and with the best will in the world I wonder how many will actually be able to complete the course.

It does make sense if the training burden is spread and those rocking up for the PDT will be of more use, but will there be "three strikes and you're out"?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#14
Bravo_Bravo said:
The_Duke said:
In our case, a posting to the recruit training team is also a requirement at various stages on the career path.
An idea I've been bleating on about for some years. ( Not a transfer to your RTT, by the way. ) Gives a clear incentive for guys to go, and ensures quality of instructors ( to a degree - I'll assume a good insert required )

My Company is well-manned but the 18 month PDT beat up is a pretty major commitment for Soldiers. AIUI there is very little scope for blokes to miss weekends or drill night training, and with the best will in the world I wonder how many will actually be able to complete the course.

It does make sense if the training burden is spread and those rocking up for the PDT will be of more use, but will there be "three strikes and you're out"?
It is a real problem, and you have to write the programme with a certain amount of repetition. This enables you to give everyone the best possible chance of passing, but at the cost of doing certain things more than once when you would rather be moving on.

We are now at the training point of no return, and will be striking people off the list of those who will mobilise because we do not have the training time available for them to catch up with the missed TOs.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Duke,

A 'for instance'. If a Pte/LCpl from 4 Para unavoidably missed a TO, would it be beyond the realms of what is feasible for him to attend a training weekend with another battalion which is conducting that same TO at a later date? Given that several TA battalions are planning to train up and send troops to H15, for example, should allow some latitude if we all start talking to, and working with each other, no?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#16
RP578 said:
Duke,

A 'for instance'. If a Pte/LCpl from 4 Para unavoidably missed a TO, would it be beyond the realms of what is feasible for him to attend a training weekend with another battalion which is conducting that same TO at a later date? Given that several TA battalions are planning to train up and send troops to H15, for example, should allow some latitude if we all start talking to, and working with each other, no?
Well, you would like to think so, wouldn't you? :D

To be honest, one TO is not a problem, and there are procedures in place to catch up on those. It is an issue when the missed TOs accumulate to such a level that the time required to catch up has a knock on effect on the next round of training, etc, etc, etc. Bottom line is that people need to attend just about every training event if they are to hit all the TOs in the time available.
 
#17
RP578 said:
Whiskey_60 said:
As a side note standards for promotion have changed also. You need to be a class 1 rifleman, completed Matts for that year, and completed a Combat Sigs Cadre to promote to lance jack and must have SAAI for Corporal - this is our Battalion atleast, i'd imagine this is happening across the whole TA Inf also?
Given that SAA is an integral part of Regular Infantry SCBC then it's really no big surprise that's happening. Naturally given the length of the courses, the TA version will have to stay as separate AASAA and Junior Tac. Radio users course was already a tick in the box as I believe was DITs.
Apologies for my knowledge being behind the curve, I just got this through my Bn's pre-JNCOs selection weekend on one of the briefs.
 
#18
I am 37 years old, ex-reg inf, left in 96, started the joining process in December last year and have passed the bft and the medical, I have been told that I can do selection next weekend then straight onto Spring Challenge and CIC in a 5 week block.

Apparently if I do this then one weekend a month and annual camp I will be able to deploy with my old Bn next year on Op Herrick 14.

I'd like to hear any opinions/thoughts from those in the know as it seems that what I have been told (by the recruiter) and what I have read here seem to be two entirely different things.

Or perhaps its just me and the Army hasn't changed at all, still fed on shit, kept in the dark etc...

Steve
 
#19
steve3883 said:
I am 37 years old, ex-reg inf, left in 96, started the joining process in December last year and have passed the bft and the medical, I have been told that I can do selection next weekend then straight onto Spring Challenge and CIC in a 5 week block.

Apparently if I do this then one weekend a month and annual camp I will be able to deploy with my old Bn next year on Op Herrick 14.

I'd like to hear any opinions/thoughts from those in the know as it seems that what I have been told (by the recruiter) and what I have read here seem to be two entirely different things.

Or perhaps its just me and the Army hasn't changed at all, still fed on s***, kept in the dark etc...

Steve
Pretty much!

To be honest, I do think this is great with the extra trg and it's certainly welcome. But I've been told it's 26 weekends from zero to hero going through Chilwell, unless it's fairly flexible there will probably be some sort of reduction in numbers of IR volunteers - but with the Army doing better on Recruitment will they be that bothered?

It doesn't bother me directly as I've got no life so I can make the Weekends but for the more Casual bayonets amongst us will this become a drama in a year or two?
 
#20
Interesting reading here as, again, a general consenseus of opinion is at odds with what some individuals have been told.

Whilst my Bn has said we will receive PDT, it does not appear, at this stage, from the information I have been given/ seen (please note all the caveats) that this PDT is particulalry structured until Nov, when we have a 2 week mobilisation phase.

Following that, I become part of my regular Inf Regt, come home for Christmas leave and then PDT starts in earnest for a March/ April deployment.

I can't see me making a class one soldier in that short time, given MTD caps and sheer availability of weekends although I am fortunate that I am able to take quite a bit of time off to attend DITS and JNCO courses etc.

(my PSI is away at present helping bereaved families before anyone suggests speaking with him)
 

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