Depleted uranium (DU) and a strange e-mail

#1
Dear Fellasses an’ Fellas,

I've posted this in the NAAFI because that’s where most folks tend to throw in a look before they go on to the more grown-up and sensible threads.

I got this rather strange e-mail quite some time ago and I've been having a bit of a grub around on t’internet on the subject ever since. I’m still not really sure what to make of it, but since I know that there are a lot of ARRSE members who commented on “Gulf War Syndrome” and the possible effects of DU (depleted uranium), I thought it might be interesting to gather some more enlightened and subject-savvy opinions from folks a whole lot more intelligent than me. Here’s the e-mail I received:
________________________________________________________________________________
New Personal Message: Outing a World Wide Con Artist‏
From: U.S.MilVets (magforce@msn.com)

Sent: 11 July 2009 10:38:13
To: bugsy
You have just been sent a personal message by Rxxxxxx on U.S.MilVets.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

I saw your post about how you out people in the UK. I am looking for allies in the UK. I have been dueling with poseurs on the Palestine Telegraph in London. Douglas Lind Rokke, aka Major Rokke, aka Doctor Rokke, is a professional liar. He is a Major, (US Army Reserve (retired)) but poses as being a career Army officer - he is a Doctor (of Vocational Education) but poses as a Physicist, Health Physicist or even implies that he was an MD. He travels the world making the false claim that he was the Director of the US Army Depleted Uranium program (Army-wide programs are not run by Army Reserve Captains on one year tours of active duty). I have many enemies because I out the liars who abound in what I call the anti-depleted uranium crusade. I look forward to your return reply.

Rxxxx Hxxxxx

Reply to this Personal Message here: http://usmilvets.org/index.phpxxxxxxxxx
_______________________________________________________________________________

The thing is that I have a longstanding beef with the owner of the Milvets site, who calls himself “MAGFORCE” but who I like to refer to as “Mag the Nificient”. So, although I’m nominally still a member of Milvets, I've no real time for the tiresome cünt and it’s been a fair while since I even visited the site or posted there.

However, the subject matter did spark my interest and I've done a bit of digging on t'internet with my very primitive abilities. There seems to be a fair bit going down with your man but I was wondering if other ARRSErs have been confronted or touched upon the subject before or since.

http://www.alternet.org/story/98950..._idaho/?comments=view&cID=1010588&pID=1009935

http://www.archive.org/details/rokkejuly07part1

Any offers?

MsG
 
#2
Bugsy said:
________________________________________________________________________________
New Personal Message: Outing a World Wide Con Artist‏
From: U.S.MilVets (magforce@msn.com)

Sent: 11 July 2009 10:38:13
To: bugsy
You have just been sent a personal message by Rxxxxxx on U.S.MilVets.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

I saw your post about how you out people in the UK. I am looking for allies in the UK. I have been dueling with poseurs on the Palestine Telegraph in London. Douglas Lind Rokke, aka Major Rokke, aka Doctor Rokke, is a professional liar. He is a Major, (US Army Reserve (retired)) but poses as being a career Army officer - he is a Doctor (of Vocational Education) but poses as a Physicist, Health Physicist or even implies that he was an MD. He travels the world making the false claim that he was the Director of the US Army Depleted Uranium program (Army-wide programs are not run by Army Reserve Captains on one year tours of active duty). I have many enemies because I out the liars who abound in what I call the anti-depleted uranium crusade. I look forward to your return reply.

Rxxxx Hxxxxx


Any offers?

MsG
Rolf Harris?
 
#3
Doug Rokke earned his B.S. in Physics at Western Illinois University followed by his M.S. and Ph.D. in physics and technology education at the University of Illinois. His military career has spanned 4 decades to include combat duty during the Vietnam War and Gulf War 1.

Dr. Doug Rokke is a Depleted Uranium expert.

Doug served as a member of the 3rd U.S. Army Medical Command's Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical (NBC) teaching, medical response, and special operations team, the 3rd U.S. Army captured equipment project team, and with the 3rd U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Assessment team during Gulf War 1(Operation Desert Storm).
He was the U.S. Army's Depleted Uranium Project director from 1994 - 1995. He developed the congressionally mandated education and training materials and wrote U.S. Army Regulation 700-48, the U.S. Army PAM 700-48, and the U.S. Army's common task for DU incidents.

Dr. Rokke serves or has served as an advisor with the U.S. Centers of Disease Control; U.S. Department of Defense; U.S. National Academy of Sciences; U.S. Institute of Medicine; U.S Senate; U.S. House of Representatives; U.S. Department of Transportation; U.S.

Federal Aviation Administration; U.S. Department of Defense; U.S. General Accounting Office; U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs; British Royal Society; British House of Lords and House of Commons; United Nations; U.S. President William J. Clinton's Presidential Special Oversight Board; and local, state, and federal law enforcement, fire, and medical agencies

In 1991 he served in the Gulf. His work involved helping casualties and cleaning equipment contaminated with depleted uranium (DU), used in the war in tank-busting weapons because of its high density.
This guy? Nope, sounds perfectly fine with me - maybe post it in the US section.
 
#4
para_medic said:
Doug Rokke earned his B.S. in Physics at Western Illinois University followed by his M.S. and Ph.D. in physics and technology education at the University of Illinois. His military career has spanned 4 decades to include combat duty during the Vietnam War and Gulf War 1.

Dr. Doug Rokke is a Depleted Uranium expert.

Doug served as a member of the 3rd U.S. Army Medical Command's Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical (NBC) teaching, medical response, and special operations team, the 3rd U.S. Army captured equipment project team, and with the 3rd U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Assessment team during Gulf War 1(Operation Desert Storm).
He was the U.S. Army's Depleted Uranium Project director from 1994 - 1995. He developed the congressionally mandated education and training materials and wrote U.S. Army Regulation 700-48, the U.S. Army PAM 700-48, and the U.S. Army's common task for DU incidents.

Dr. Rokke serves or has served as an advisor with the U.S. Centers of Disease Control; U.S. Department of Defense; U.S. National Academy of Sciences; U.S. Institute of Medicine; U.S Senate; U.S. House of Representatives; U.S. Department of Transportation; U.S.

Federal Aviation Administration; U.S. Department of Defense; U.S. General Accounting Office; U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs; British Royal Society; British House of Lords and House of Commons; United Nations; U.S. President William J. Clinton's Presidential Special Oversight Board; and local, state, and federal law enforcement, fire, and medical agencies

In 1991 he served in the Gulf. His work involved helping casualties and cleaning equipment contaminated with depleted uranium (DU), used in the war in tank-busting weapons because of its high density.
This guy? Nope, sounds perfectly fine with me - maybe post it in the US section.
Aye, right! What else! In your rush to prove your obvious supremacy over the rest of mankind, pama_redic, you offer your singularly arrogant opinion and expect it to be taken as the ultimate truth, in spite of displaying nothing at all to back it up, apart from your, errm, personal opinion. I'm sure Bernie Madoff and his scheme sounded perfectly fine to you too, mucker!

Would you actually be interested in a range of bridges I have on offer? They can all be individually named after you, if you so wish, no problem.

It's about unearthing things we don't/didn't know or are/were never properly informed about. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. Time, and evidence, will tell.

Iivärschtaade, Cholläg?

MsG
 
#5
Bugsy, I am saying that I can not find any obvious flaws in that CV. But I do find a lot of easily verifiable data that maybe people in the US could check.
Trying to help, is all....
 
#6
While Googling “Dr. Doug Rokke” produced a huge number of hits, all the ones I opened were on loony left sites that have zero credibility.

Interestingly Googling “U.S. Army's Depleted Uranium Project” only produced hits referencing Dr Rokke, so it appears he was the entire project.
 
#7
Mobat said:
While Googling “Dr. Doug Rokke” produced a huge number of hits, all the ones I opened were on loony left sites that have zero credibility.

Interestingly, Googling “U.S. Army's Depleted Uranium Project” only produced hits referencing Dr Rokke, so it appears he was the entire project.
That's exactly what happened to me too, Mobat. I may be neurotic, I may be stupid, but when stuff like that happens, it just makes me think that there's something (I don't know what) going on.

MsG
 
#8
Bugsy said:
Mobat said:
While Googling “Dr. Doug Rokke” produced a huge number of hits, all the ones I opened were on loony left sites that have zero credibility.

Interestingly, Googling “U.S. Army's Depleted Uranium Project” only produced hits referencing Dr Rokke, so it appears he was the entire project.
That's exactly what happened to me too, Mobat. I may be neurotic, I may be stupid, but when stuff like that happens, it just makes me think that there's something (I don't know what) going on.

MsG
U.S. Army Regulation 700-48, the U.S. Army PAM 700-48 do exist, you can obtain copies here: http://www.apd.army.mil/USAPA_PUB_pubrange_P.asp?valueAD=Pam+-+DA+Pamphlet

No way of knowing if he had anything to do with them.
 
#9
Bugsy,

Thanks for posting my strange e-mail to you. Thanks too, to Mobat for his skepticism. I was a bit disappointed when para_medic basically Googled Rokke and then posted one of Rokke's better scripted bios. I tore that one apart on a London website, Palestinian Telegraph where I began dueling with a Peter Eyre, supposed Middle East consultant and probable phony or just propagandist. I liked Mobat's comment about checking someone out. I have been doing that on Rokke for over four years. I got about half of his Army records under the Freedom of Information Act and I have his university records as well. I can prove every word that I say and I invite you to either write me directly at DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com or perhaps visit the Yahoo Group DUStory, which I founded so that I had a place to post the documents that I had gotten on Rokke, and go to the Files Section where the documents are posted. You can visit the Files Section as a guest by using the guest user name and password in Message 87, then signing in and going to the Files Section http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DUStory/message/87

Roger
 

Attachments

#10
Bugsy why don't you out yourself as a 'Entire family killed by the British army in Ulster' walt? You still haven't backed up your Billy Liar claims of the other year.
 
#11
para_medic said:
Bugsy, I am saying that I can not find any obvious flaws in that CV. But I do find a lot of easily verifiable data that maybe people in the US could check.
Trying to help, is all....
Dear Para_medic, Having done a bit more research on this fella, I’d tend to agree with your conclusion in the interim. I’d therefore like to offer my apologies to you for going off on one at you in my previous post. That was uncalled for.

There appears to be so much about this subject that needs to be looked at that I don’t feel I’m in any position to form a conclusive opinion on it until I've had the opportunity to sort the wheat from the chaff. With my wobbly IT abilities, that could take quite a time. That’s why I hoped that others with a lot more knowledge than me could maybe make a contribution to the discussion.

rhotel1 said:
Bugsy,

Thanks for posting my strange e-mail to you. Thanks too, to Mobat for his skepticism. I was a bit disappointed when para_medic basically Googled Rokke and then posted one of Rokke's better scripted bios. I tore that one apart on a London website, Palestinian Telegraph where I began dueling with a Peter Eyre, supposed Middle East consultant and probable phony or just propagandist. I liked Mobat's comment about checking someone out. I have been doing that on Rokke for over four years. I got about half of his Army records under the Freedom of Information Act and I have his university records as well. I can prove every word that I say and I invite you to either write me directly at DUStory-owner@yahoogroups.com or perhaps visit the Yahoo Group DUStory, which I founded so that I had a place to post the documents that I had gotten on Rokke, and go to the Files Section where the documents are posted. You can visit the Files Section as a guest by using the guest user name and password in Message 87, then signing in and going to the Files Section http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DUStory/message/87

Roger
Dear Roger, I originally posted the e-mail because I was (and still am) genuinely interested in gathering information on the subject. I hope that folks will add to my, admittedly very skimpy, store of knowledge about DU on an impartial basis. That doesn’t include you, since you appear to be very intent on pushing a particular agenda here. Sorry mucker, but I simply don’t trust you.

MsG
 
#12
Bugsy - welcome to the world of DU. OK let us begin.

Point 1 - much of the discussion comes from the heart and not the head. You may recall on the Israeli thread during the last attack in Palestine some Welsh cnut claiming DU is a WMD. Its not!

Point 2 - why use it? Its heavy, goes in a straight line with little windage movement, it is pyrophoric when it passes through the armour and heats up and actually "flashes" when it gets behind the armour. And it displays adiabatic shear banding - it self sharpens.

Point 3 - it is only mildly radioactive - very mildly.

Point 4 - its density (roughly twice that of lead when it is weaponized and mixed with other "stuff") is useful in a number of applications including (strangely) armour plate, radioactive shileding, aircraft trim weights and paperweights in the offices of one mad scientist I knew.

Point 5 - it is a heavy metal and therefore toxic. So the aerosols etc produced after a strike can get into the human system and the alpha particles can get to work internally as well as the material itself being toxic. Radioactive decay also produces other elements of thorium and protoactinium!

OK that's that bit done.

Then the heart kicks in and the arguments start. Unfortunately they are scientific and mathematical and at the same time able to generate heated arguments e.g. does Gulf War Syndrome actually exist?

Here is an example of what happens.

http://postconflict.unep.ch/publications/BiH_DU_report.pdf .This is a large document (16MB).

Now the locals smoke like chimneys, ciggies being around 80p a packet but the cancer spikes among inhabitatnst who used to live near Zunovnica (Hadzici) were definitely caused by DU.

You see the problem.
 
#13
Bugsy said:
para_medic said:
Bugsy, I am saying that I can not find any obvious flaws in that CV. But I do find a lot of easily verifiable data that maybe people in the US could check.
Trying to help, is all....
Dear Para_medic, Having done a bit more research on this fella, I’d tend to agree with your conclusion in the interim. I’d therefore like to offer my apologies to you for going off on one at you in my previous post. That was uncalled for.
No problem at all. You did post in the NAAFI so all is expected and forgiven.
Now, what still puzzles me is: what is this about?
A USAR DU-expert walt? I could not care less.
The issue of DU and legal implications of it's use? Interesting, see RM's post.
If Roger could frame the whole thing clearly, we might know where this is going. As it is, I am unable to find said duelling match on the Palestine Telegraph ( :roll: ) so I don't quite grasp what was duelled for and which side was/is which.
So, a bit of background would be nice.

Oh yeah, this being the NAAFI: you're all cnuts - there you go :D
 
#15
Dear Rickshaw_major, Thanks indeed for taking the trouble to post. That seems to sum up the whole thing as far as I can see with my very limited grasp of the subject.

I've started to build up a file on DU so that I don't keep having to refer to websites to check stuff out. That PDF you kindly posted looks very interesting, but I'm having a bit of trouble downloading it. It should take about 20 seconds on my connection, in spite of its size, but it keeps stopping at about the 5 MB point and freezes. Any tips on how I could get the whole thing for my "dossier" (which is already around the 450 MB mark)?

para_medic said:
Bugsy said:
para_medic said:
Bugsy, I am saying that I can not find any obvious flaws in that CV. But I do find a lot of easily verifiable data that maybe people in the US could check.
Trying to help, is all....
Dear Para_medic, Having done a bit more research on this fella, I’d tend to agree with your conclusion in the interim. I’d therefore like to offer my apologies to you for going off on one at you in my previous post. That was uncalled for.
No problem at all. You did post in the NAAFI so all is expected and forgiven.
Now, what still puzzles me is: what is this about?
A USAR DU-expert walt? I could not care less.
The issue of DU and legal implications of it's use? Interesting, see RM's post.
If Roger could frame the whole thing clearly, we might know where this is going. As it is, I am unable to find said duelling match on the Palestine Telegraph ( :roll: ) so I don't quite grasp what was duelled for and which side was/is which.
So, a bit of background would be nice.

Oh yeah, this being the NAAFI: you're all cnuts - there you go :D
It's strange that you should mention the Palestine Telegraph, Para_medic, because I couldn't find said duelling match there either. Neither could another ARRSEr, who PMd me with all sorts of interesting details about DU.

I agree that this Roger (Helbig), for 'twas he who sent me the original e-mail, could contribute to clarification concentrating on the subject matter itself. From what I've been able to find so far on t'internet, he appears much more interested in questioning the qualifications, personal habits, circle of friends, parentage etc of those who don't agree with him.

That's not really helpful if you're just trying to build up a picture of this apparently very complex subject for your own information. Contrast what he's posted to date with what Rickshaw_major's said on the subject.

Still, maybe he's keeping the best for last. :D

MsG
 
#16
Bugsy

Sorry mate I can't help you will just have to persevere. However it will be worth it because it is actually quite a good read and goes some way to dispelling some of the sh1t that is written about the stuff particularly on dust contamination etc.

However this is not a logical subject an I have met quite logical people taking about DU and they feck off at a tangent quite quickly. And as soon as local politicians get involved ...........
 
#17
Doug Rokke does appear to be an "agent" of some kind, inciting people to further a political agenda discrediting the USA, the UK, and Israel.


Here is an over view of the subject from The American Thinker. -
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/depleted_uranium_the_saga_cont.html

More on the anti - DU crowd.-
http://www.ntanet.net/traprock.html


The Robert Fisk canard -
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ry-of-israels-secret-uranium-bomb-421960.html

The government of Lebanon absolved Israel of charges that it used DU in the 2006 war. -
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3371015,00.html

Doug Rokke and Dave von Kliest attend neo Nazi convention - http://www.americanfreepress.net/AFP_2006_conference.pdf

Discussed on Stormfront web site -
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=318533

A description of the conference by the "voice of national socialism" websie. -
http://chairmanofnordwave.blogspot.com/2006/09/2006-afp-tbr-fifth-international.html

This is a link to chart showing the strange milieu that Rokke travels in.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp343/livingengine/depleted-uranium2.jpg

Hope this helps.
 
#18
#19
I am dismayed that I had to read several paragraphs before you got around to calling some gobshite septic webmaster a cünt! This I feel does not meet the expected standard of posts in the NAAFI bar.
 
#20
Nominate Rickshaw_Major for the most "informed" post ever in The NAAFI.

Adiabatic shear banding - possibly next time you could post some scantily clad women to assist your explanation.

- and yes 16Mb, a very large document RM - and not a pair of jugs in site!

:D
 
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