Denigration of Churchill: Anyone see a trend?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Circus_Pony, Sep 10, 2010.

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  1. Winston Churchill blamed for 1m deaths in India famine - Telegraph

    This was in the Telegraph this morning (10Sep10) - in a nutshell, Churchill is being linked to the famine deaths of c. 1m in India during WWII. Coming so soon after another report (last week?) regarding pre-WWII letters from Churchill on the subject of Il Duce and Fascist Italy and an alleged attempt to get SOE / MI6 to recover them following Mussolini's death, are we seeing a concerted effort from some quarters to "smear" the man, or is it just a co-incidence?

    C_P
     
  2. I like churchill but he was very far from perfect.
    the famine happened on his watch and he was less than sympathtic (might have been a touch preoccupied elsewhere)

    most people can live with shades of grey would'nt get elected these days but then again we are not facing a fight for our survival.

    As the man said history will be kind to me as I intend to write it and HE DID:)
     
  3. Andy_S

    Andy_S LE Book Reviewer

    Churchill was an imperialist and a drunkard, and arguably, an elitist and a racist.

    But when you compare these faults to his achievements, I think he still merits the title "Great Man."
     
  4. Churchill also warned the Beveridge Plan for a Welfare State would be a disaster for Britain and boy was he right!
     
  5. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Where is your evidence that he was a drunkard? He was a man of his times and to call him names is plain silly. I suspect that the Victorians and Edwardians would find more justifiable criticisms of us than we of them - and be too polite to mention them.




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  6. Churchill was a vicious old pirate but he was our pirate. Without a shadow of a doubt if we had lost WW2 he would have been hanged at the Old Bailey War Crimes trials. The trouble is we keep trying to put a template of 2010 onto the events of seventy years ago, while expecting people who were born sixty years before that in a different world again to behave like some PC lefty on steroids.

    As for his drinking:

    Lord Moran commented: “It makes his speech more difficult to understand and fuddles what is left of his wits; and yet he does not attempt to control his thirst." When the subject was raised with Churchill, he replied enigmatically: Lord Moran commented: “It makes his speech more difficult to understand and fuddles what is left of his wits; and yet he does not attempt to control his thirst." When the subject was raised with Churchill, he replied enigmatically: "Is alcohol a food?"

    In the 10 years of retirement before he died, Churchill drank more than ever. He never missed having a bottle of champagne for lunch and very often had another one for dinner. One visitor from the period noted: “There is always some alcohol in his blood, and it reaches its peak late in the evening after he has had two or three scotches, several glasses of champagne, at least two brandies, and a highball… but his family never sees him the worst for drink.”

    Churchill's ability to shovel the real material away stood him ingood stead with Uncle Joe. When FDR had gone to bed with a milky drink, WSC and Uncle Joe would get into the jelly-meat of thrashing the Hun and restructuring the world. When you consider how much they must have put away, the events of 1945-1989 suddenly seem far less Alice in Wonderland after all!

    At the end of the day, churchill may have been a drunkard but he never drank so much that he could find Bessie Braddock attractive...
     
  7. There is nothing new here, Churchill was not a nice bloke but cometh the hour cometh the man, history it seems throws up these type of people who can galvanise a nation in some cases (ours) against overwhelming odds and triumph. Or are these people always there but the opportunity to shine, such as a conflict do not always exist? There is no one I could see in politics today who would be prepared to make a unilateral decision to take this country in to a war. More recently take Thatcher, mad as a box of frogs but if it was not for her the Falklands would now be Malvinas and we would still be negotiating at the Iranian embassy. These type of people made it possible for others to write whatever they wish.
     
  8. Churchill and the Indian famine is old hat. I recall hot young socialists getting all het up about it when I was an undergraduate, and I'm in my 40s now.

    In 60 years, people will be gasping in horror that the monstrous Tony Blair ordered the invasion of Iraq; young lefties will be saying it makes our whole culture one of war and theft, and on the ARRSE of 2070 lots of hover-chair generals will be saying how the very necessary Iraq intervention has to be seen in its proper historical context.
     
  9. Anyone mentioned The Dardanells yet?
     
  10. Who'd want to smear Churchill? Bacofoil time?

    Historic reappraisals go on all the time and frankly Churchill is all the more interesting because of the contradictions, failures (like the Dardanelles) and paradoxes. History forgets the real saints for the same reasons. To see an excellent example of a liberal academic handle Churchill watch one of the Simon Schama History episodes called 'The Two Winstons'.
     
  11. The Guardian had an artical on the Famine.
    I got the impression they where more upset as they couldn't get Maggei into the subject.

    john
     
  12. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    There is a great difference between drinking a lot - Churchill, and being a drunkard - Asquith. Churchill made ninety, was intellectually agile, was considered one of the most formidable Parliamentarians this country has ever produced, was renowned for his demonic energy and ability to work long hours and was capable of consistently producing a considerable written output. Those are not the hallmarks of a drunk. Some people are Vikings and some people are Charles Kennedy or Boris Yeltsin. It is only in our namby pamby, frightened of our own shadow, four units per day, generally cr@p age, that this question would even arise. To paraphrase Lincoln, whatever it was that Churchill drank, it's a pity we can't send it to our other politicians. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - and from you of all people Cuddles.
     
  13. you sir are drunk
    yes but i the morning I will be sober you will still be ugly :)
     
  14. Walter Thompson, Churchill's bodyguard, didn't think much of Lord Moran. "Wouldn't let him tend a sick dog,etc." It is true though that Churchill seemingly had two hollow legs as he could shift quite a bit of alcohol in his daily activities and not show it. Very handy, as someone else pointed out, during those long parties with Uncle Joe at his country dacha during the war. :p

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Are the relatives of the victims going to sue us?