Demjanjuk Found Guilty By German Court

#2
I beg to differ, justice has not really been done. Demjanjuk has been convicted, but just how long will he do inside before he either croaks or is released due to poor health? He deserves a very long custodial which he will never serve.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
I beg to differ, justice has not really been done. Demjanjuk has been convicted, but just how long will he do inside before he either croaks or is released due to poor health? He deserves a very long custodial which he will never serve.
I take your point. But, as this is the verdict of a German Court I feel that we ought to accord some significance to that verdict.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
#6
#7
When you consider the number of Nazis who held political office post WW2, over 70 in the parliament of Hessen alone (110 seats) and that those Nazis officials and civil servants who were sacked by the allies in 1945 for being considered to be politically and idealogically dangerous, all got their jobs back in 1954 under the new West German Bundesrepublik and that this amounted to 80% of all the officials originally employed in "Gross Deutscher Reich" all being found work in a much smaller country i.e. shoehorned into crammed townhalls etc..

Well I'd say he was just a patsy, a bad patsy, but none the less.
 
#8
Prosecutors had argued he was recruited by the Germans to be an SS camp guard and that by working at a death camp he was a participant in the killings. No evidence was produced that he committed a specific crime.
Demjanjuk has already spent eight years in detention in Israel.
I think as cernunnos pointed out many who were guilty of much more got away scot-free.
They have been after Demjanjuk since the early 80's, trying him as Ivan the Terrible then finding out it was someone else. Then trying him for another crime.

I think it was a case of pin the tail on the donkey, how guilty the donkey was I'm not sure we will ever know.
 
#9
I'm split on this - he claims to have volunteered to get out of the POW cage, and considering they were as good as a death sentence for the majority of the poor bastards who went into them I'd understand a decision made out of self preservation. If he was an enthusiastic SS volunteer then he deserves everything he gets, if he volunteered to serve the German military and ended up with the choice of being put against a wall/going back in the cage or guarding someone else's cage then I wouldn't be quite as quick to condemn him as evil.
 
#10
According to the evening news he is out of gaol pending appeal, and will regardless of the result almost certainly never go back inside. It does seem like this is something of a show trial, and that Demjanjuk has been unlucky. As Cernunnos says there were plenty of Nazis who either got off lightly or even scot free and ended up in positions of power and influence. The East Germans were a bit more thorough in this respect, as late as the early 70s one Nazi who thought that he had got away with it was denounced by his estranged wife. He was shot.
 
#11
The German media picked up on my theme last night. They showed a German judge who signed over 200 death sentences under the NSDAP regime. He was never tried for his involvement and enjoyed his highly paid retirement. The only German judge who might have dangled for the amusement of Albert Pierpoint was Roland Freisler. He was taken out by an American bomb. Sixteen Nazi judges and public prosecutors were tried at Nuremburg. 12 were convicted. By 1956 all were exhonerated and enjoying fat pensions and back pay.

These people passed death sentences for petty stuff, on those who qualified for a court case.

Many received a "sonderbehandlung." Torture and execution without a trial.
 
#14
Correct me if I'm wrong but - is this not the equivalent of if in say 50 years time, and the war on Iraq was declared illegal, then an average Joe squaddie was found guilty of war crimes simply because he was there?
 
#15
Correct me if I'm wrong but - is this not the equivalent of if in say 50 years time, and the war on Iraq was declared illegal, then an average Joe squaddie was found guilty of war crimes simply because he was there?
No more than every German soldier was charged for participating in Germany's illegal wars of aggression. A guard at Abu Grhaib during the prisoner abuses there is probably a better parallel.
 
#16
Point taken.
 
#17
It has been 66 years exactly since the end of the second world war in Europe (May 1945) and the very youngest surviving true Nazi SS soldier would now be in his mid eighties.

Should the very last of Adolf's finest escape justice on the grounds of age?

I think not.
 
#18
Correct me if I'm wrong but - is this not the equivalent of if in say 50 years time, and the war on Iraq was declared illegal, then an average Joe squaddie was found guilty of war crimes simply because he was there?
Waiting 50 years to declare the war illegal?
 
#19
It has been 66 years exactly since the end of the second world war in Europe (May 1945) and the very youngest surviving true Nazi SS soldier would now be in his mid eighties.

Should the very last of Adolf's finest escape justice on the grounds of age?

I think not.
And I think it would depend on the background of the individual: so did the Nuremberg Trials (if you've ever heard of those, which I doubt, judging from the naivety of your comment). The SS was classified as a criminal organisation, but those who were conscripted into the SS were exempt from that ruling.

Of course there's always a sickening smell of rampant hypocrisy when po faced Western commentators start talking about these matters. It wasn't the Germans who killed 3 million Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians or rained down napalm on women and children in straw huts. It wasn't the Germans who killed half a million Iraqis at the behest of a criminally insane US President in order to steal the Iraqi oil wells for Wall Street.

The West are the war criminals now and have been for a long time. The difference between us and the Nazis is that our leaders live in rich retirement with no chance of ever facing judgement in this world. But if Bin Laden is spit roasting in Hell he can take some comfort in the thought that Bush, Blair and a great many others will be spending eternity with him. Which, as Rowman Atkinson, points out, is a sod of a long time . . .

"Americans, are you here?"
 
#20
And I think it would depend on the background of the individual: so did the Nuremberg Trials (if you've ever heard of those, which I doubt, judging from the naivety of your comment). The SS was classified as a criminal organisation, but those who were conscripted into the SS were exempt from that ruling.

Of course there's always a sickening smell of rampant hypocrisy when po faced Western commentators start talking about these matters. It wasn't the Germans who killed 3 million Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians or rained down napalm on women and children in straw huts. It wasn't the Germans who killed half a million Iraqis at the behest of a criminally insane US President in order to steal the Iraqi oil wells for Wall Street.

The West are the war criminals now and have been for a long time. The difference between us and the Nazis is that our leaders live in rich retirement with no chance of ever facing judgement in this world. But if Bin Laden is spit roasting in Hell he can take some comfort in the thought that Bush, Blair and a great many others will be spending eternity with him. Which, as Rowman Atkinson, points out, is a sod of a long time . . .

"Americans, are you here?"
Not to mention many in Laos who are still being killed by unexploded ordinance left behind by the Americans after the secret bombing during Vietnam war,and who are too tight to pay to have this mess cleared up.Still,not too many votes in Laos are there?.

And while on the subject of nazi war criminals how about all those the Americans sheilded from justice and allowed to leave Germany for Latin America after the Second World war?.klaus Barbie for one.
 

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