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Defence hotel reservation service.

Whats in place for them booking a hotel not listed? oh right they have to look up the hotels themselves.

What other mechanism? Its "free" remember.
Have to show VFM? Did you join the Army yesterday? Just as Carillon, PAYD companies etc do?
The MOD thinks a lot of things are acceptable, that why the armed forces are in shit state.
I reckon HRS said something along the lines of "hey MOD, our service isfFree, you wont get cheaper than that and all the gullible mugs in the MOD who are responsible for signing shit contracts thought they were getting a bargain. Clearly you didnt read other people comments on this thread.

What a shit defence of the governance of CHBS, she did get caught after 17 months and repeatedly abusing the system, round of applause for such quick reactions :roll:

The tax free lump sum could have been done well before it was implemented though, but no it couldnt possibly work because there were plenty of **** excuse why it couldnt.

Is a good enough reason, its easier and possibly cheaper to book their own?
There are several possible mechanisms, eg they could make a fixed sum per room or paid a fixed sum.
VFM - you have a fixed lens and an inability to look through a different one but all the Carillion and the PAYD companies have all demonstrated VFM otherwise they wouldn't be on contract.
What's shit is your assertion that governance doesn't work, it's probably not even relevant here, an individual who knew the system, played it. It would be no different if booking.com was used, a MOD GPC would bee required to reserve the room.
WRT the tax free lump sum, the only reason we got it (H10?) was because of the amount of people dying or seriously injured. Politically it was the right thing to do at the time, hence the constant drive to reduce now.
 
CHBS only have limited options, you can test this yourself by going on the CHBS site and choosing a random town, then going on the Booking.com site (or other hotel sites) and typing in the same town.
You said earlier that you can add a hotel if you can justify it. Its then up to the individual to search for a better hotel on the internet, before going back to CHBS? Great use of time there...

I've don't the comparison between CHBS & Booking.com - the cheapest was CHBS.
Booking.com did have more choices, they went down to every class and many would be excluded by MoDs basic standards.

Its not up to the individual to find a 'better' hotel on the internet.
Bearing in mind that those who argue against CHBS all seem to have spent their time looking for cheaper hotels, then that time has already been used up.
The CHBS follows the procedures and criteria set by MoD and government.



I notice you didnt answer the question. If you were on a % commission would you find the cheapest or more expensive option for your clients? Why would the CHBS not want to make money? You said it was a "free" service, its got to claw back its cash somehow.
If I was tendering to provide a service I'd consider whether I'd be wanting to charge a fixed fee, commission etc.
Note that the MoDs required process is to list hotels that meet the criteria and require that the cheapest available is selected.
If I was to massage the selection to rack up costs and my share of commission then I would be short sighted and expect to lose the contract.
How does the Army monitor who is on leave, exercise or at meetings (without hotel use) without the aid of a third party?
Meetings without hotel use may include travel, so the MI on that isn't restricted to hotels.
You don't self book exercises on the internet - its managed in house in the unit, through Brigades etc and is also handled through a third party company (Landmark)
When I'm on leave I don't sit within the Army duty of care.
The lack of information, or existence of other systems for other actvitiies don't mean that information from CHBS cannot be used and exploited.

Urbina was committing fraud for 17 months, there must have been at least one yearly audit. Her destinations alone should have raised some eyebrows, but apparently not.
The judge is quoted as saying The system was open to abuse and it appears there were totally inadequate checks, which allowed you to go undetected for so long

This governance thing? Doesn't appear to exist does it? Sounds good though, until people point out how it doesnt really exist and fulls screws can send their family to Cancun.
Inadequate checks - either the Chain of Command didn't audit her properly or they did audit her and didn't identify the problem. She may have falsified records, or as she was a booking clerk they didn't see the wood for the trees with her real unit bookings and fraudulent personal ones.
They did manage to discover via the audit process in the end, otherwise we would know nothing about it.


This reminds me years ago when soldiers use to complain about being taxed while deployed (Some other countries dont tax them). Brigadier I/C Paperclips, was regularly wheeled out usually via the Soldier magazine to say how it would be impossible due to tax law, treasury rules, other implications, then one day we got the tax free allowance for deploying and its works fine.
In a similar manner, the growing of beards is prohibited by all manner of **** excuses despite overwhelming evidence it doesnt really affect anything. One day the rule will change and everyone will think what the **** took so long.


Its possible one day that the MOD might let its staff book their own hotels and wonder why the change took so long.

Having been in the MoD since 1984, I've been self booking hotels & travel for decades.
The only times I didn't were as part of group bookings.
I've been using CHBS since it began, but since I became eligible my first choice has been the mess before a hotel. I have not stayed in a hotel on business for years, if it wasn't for Covid then I would have had a night in London in July, and due to location and timings that probably would have been a hotel.
 
I've don't the comparison between CHBS & Booking.com - the cheapest was CHBS.
Booking.com did have more choices, they went down to every class and many would be excluded by MoDs basic standards.

Really? A much smaller company that doesnt have any competition was cheaper than a massive company that is competitive?
Why not let the individual decide is it make their standard? You can even filter by class if you really need something.



Its not up to the individual to find a 'better' hotel on the internet.
Bearing in mind that those who argue against CHBS all seem to have spent their time looking for cheaper hotels, then that time has already been used up.
The CHBS follows the procedures and criteria set by MoD and government.

In the case of Grafenwehr it was up to the individual, me. Because they wanted to stick me ******* miles away from where I need to be.
Im sure the CHBS does follow the critieria that the MOD sets, it doesn't mean that the criteria is right does it? It just mean they are following it.



If I was tendering to provide a service I'd consider whether I'd be wanting to charge a fixed fee, commission etc.
Note that the MoDs required process is to list hotels that meet the criteria and require that the cheapest available is selected.
If I was to massage the selection to rack up costs and my share of commission then I would be short sighted and expect to lose the contract.
As Ive said, Ive stayed in better hotels for cheaper than what the CHBS offered. Ive also stayed in a hotel that the MOD/Army/Government block booked that wasnt listed by the CHBS that was cheaper than the "only" one they could offer me.


Why would anyone lose the contract? Its free remember? It doesnt cost the MOD anything, or are you know realising that it clearly might?





Meetings without hotel use may include travel, so the MI on that isn't restricted to hotels.
You don't self book exercises on the internet - its managed in house in the unit, through Brigades etc and is also handled through a third party company (Landmark)
When I'm on leave I don't sit within the Army duty of care.
The lack of information, or existence of other systems for other actvitiies don't mean that information from CHBS cannot be used and exploited.

May include, might not though. Especially is Pte bloggs is going to claim MMA or is driving an military vechicle.
I know you dont book exercises through the internet and yet the Army manages to know where those people are. Im fairly certain we didnt tell Landmark were all our exercises were.
You might as well bring in a third party to check where the individuals are all the time.






Inadequate checks - either the Chain of Command didn't audit her properly or they did audit her and didn't identify the problem. She may have falsified records, or as she was a booking clerk they didn't see the wood for the trees with her real unit bookings and fraudulent personal ones.
They did manage to discover via the audit process in the end, otherwise we would know nothing about it.
No shit there were inadequate checks, but wait, I thought that was the whole point of CHBS to provide some governance? Then a Cpl manages to blag the system repeatedly using her personal email for some out of the ordinary flights for some people who were not even connected to the MOD.
There must have been a least one proper check once a year, so her 17 months span 2 or 3 checkable periods.
Well done the governance for finally getting her after 17 months as if that is something to be proud off, how many does the Army not know off because people on blagged the system once or twice?






Having been in the MoD since 1984, I've been self booking hotels & travel for decades.
The only times I didn't were as part of group bookings.
I've been using CHBS since it began, but since I became eligible my first choice has been the mess before a hotel. I have not stayed in a hotel on business for years, if it wasn't for Covid then I would have had a night in London in July, and due to location and timings that probably would have been a hotel.

You have been self booking? Did the world end?
 
Line Management are required to conduct audits.
If its beyond them then that's when fraud becomes a risk (or a genuine mistake once where you think you're entitled builds up over time)

Are you the CHBS isnt that much use for governance then?
 
Have to show VFM? Did you join the Army yesterday? Just as Carillon, PAYD companies etc do?
The MOD thinks a lot of things are acceptable, that why the armed forces are in shit state.
Carillion undercut other bidders and went bankrupt because they weren't making enough money per job.
They worked hand to mouth losing credit from suppliers and having to pay up front funding the next job with the MoDs payment for the last job. Part of that payment was for the ongoing 'warranty' support of the completed jobs. (Thats why you could find a local builder willing to price up a single job for less)
The contract with CarillionAmey gives them a set monthly income which includes doing particular jobs for free, and asking the MoD for permission to go ahead with other jobs. They clearly counted on extra profit in the additional jobs, but they would wash up as the government cut funding.
Amey had to pick up the pieces as they were still contracted to provide the contract service after their partnership fell apart.

PAYD companies don't exist.
There are contract caterers who serve the meals.
The MoD pays them to provide the staff, and they were in place long before PAYD.
Under PAYD they have to put someone at the till, then if you buy the core menu option they get the same money they did before, but if you buy the other options they make their profit.
On introduction of PAYD the contractors actually got screwed as they had to provide the same menu ingredients and also pay the VAT man. The PAYD allowance was later increased to take into account VAT


I reckon HRS said something along the lines of "hey MOD, our service isfFree, you wont get cheaper than that and all the gullible mugs in the MOD who are responsible for signing shit contracts thought they were getting a bargain. Clearly you didnt read other people comments on this thread.

No. CHBS don't do it all for free.
If you phone because you can't use the website then there's a charge, if you buy a rail ticked then there's a charge, if you buy a flight I presume there's a charge.
If you book a night in a hotel then there's a commission charge

What a shit defence of the governance of CHBS, she did get caught after 17 months and repeatedly abusing the system, round of applause for such quick reactions
:roll:
CHBS are not contracted to audit, they follow the governance process to book accommodation and travel for approved staff who provide details on the requirement, and they supply the MI to the MoD
 
There are several possible mechanisms, eg they could make a fixed sum per room or paid a fixed sum.
VFM - you have a fixed lens and an inability to look through a different one but all the Carillion and the PAYD companies have all demonstrated VFM otherwise they wouldn't be on contract.
What's shit is your assertion that governance doesn't work, it's probably not even relevant here, an individual who knew the system, played it. It would be no different if booking.com was used, a MOD GPC would bee required to reserve the room.
WRT the tax free lump sum, the only reason we got it (H10?) was because of the amount of people dying or seriously injured. Politically it was the right thing to do at the time, hence the constant drive to reduce now.

Do you think they will get the same fixed sum from a hotel offering a room for 50 quid as they would a hotel offering a room for 250 quid.

Carrillion and PAYD could shit all over a contract and the MOD would still sign it.

**** me, you are not the quickest of cats when it comes to fraud, if someone had a MOD GPC card they have to justify their purchases, I know I was local procurement trained. If there had been a hurricane in 2018 in the Caribbean, I'd have been strolling around with a 10k card. Now, while there are opportunities to make a few bucks due to that trade, using the card for personal use is not one of them. Its certainly nothing like getting multiple flights all over the world for family members.

Who cares why we got it? (Herrick 8 by the way) it was impossible, they said so. Until it wasnt impossible. Its not even a hardship to do.
 
Are you the CHBS isnt that much use for governance then?
Audit is a form of governance but governance is not entirely audit
Really? A much smaller company that doesnt have any competition was cheaper than a massive company that is competitive?
Why not let the individual decide is it make their standard? You can even filter by class if you really need something.
Yes - the cheapest bookings in my search were Travelodge & Premiere Inn. Neither of which were on Booking.com
 
Why would anyone lose the contract? Its free remember? It doesnt cost the MOD anything, or are you know realising that it clearly might?
As Ive mentioned before, its not entirely free. Hotel bookings via the CHBS website app are 'free', other services have charges.
The contract is retendered every 3 years
 
Audit is a form of governance but governance is not entirely audit

Yes - the cheapest bookings in my search were Travelodge & Premiere Inn. Neither of which were on Booking.com

Clearly there was **** all auditing going on so whats the other bit of governance so badly needed (Yet lets civvies unconnected to the MOD fly)?

Let me explain how the good way to book a hotel room is.

You go on google maps to where you want to go. You search for hotels in that area. You choose the hotel that suits yours need (within a cap). You google that hotel and look at the various links. You will find your hotel.

Your way, is to go on CHBS and if they lie and say there is nothing suitable within 20 miles of where you need to be, you go on google maps etc etc then go back to the CHBS and enter the hotel that you have found.
 
Its even easier to do it yourself.
No
In my comparison between CHBS & booking.com it was easier and cheaper for me to use CHBS

I just would have needed my password to login at the start if I was using ModNet, but my phone remembers both my CHBS and booking.com accounts
 
Its even easier to do it yourself.
Let’s not forget that some of the mentions of how difficult it is to use CHBS refer to how long they are on the phone.
Could it be that it’s ‘easier to do it myself the way I want to’ as opposed to ‘do it myself the way I’m meant to’?

Are they using the CHBS phone line because they want to show how difficult it is?
 
No
In my comparison between CHBS & booking.com it was easier and cheaper for me to use CHBS

I just would have needed my password to login at the start if I was using ModNet, but my phone remembers both my CHBS and booking.com accounts

I dont think you are quite getting it, I said booking.com because they are one of the biggest. You still look for the hotel closest to your desired location.
How do you book a hotel when you are not on MOD business? Assuming you do it the same way as me, you could do it the same way for booking a hotel on MOD business.
 
I dont think you are quite getting it, I said booking.com because they are one of the biggest. You still look for the hotel closest to your desired location.
How do you book a hotel when you are not on MOD business? Assuming you do it the same way as me, you could do it the same way for booking a hotel on MOD business.
I look around - for the most convenient hotel that meets my criteria of proximity, facilities / standards and cost

For example my main travel involving hotels is for photographing paintball tournaments.
For the Saturday night I tend to plan ahead and try to get a family room in the Premiere Inn, or failing that the local pikey stabbing hotel.
If both are busy I’ll search around
I go for family rooms to either have the space and power sockets to spread out, charge batteries and sort & publish the first photo batches or for the extra bed options for team mates.
For the Friday night I hedge my bets, I’m not certain in advance if I’m going to be free to head up or am going to have an early morning drive. I’ll also probably book along the way depending on how I feel driving - I’ll either try to get up to the same place as planned for Saturday or Ill stop along the way for motorway services or a local dive.
Preferably I’ll have an easy Friday morning, knock off on flexi for the afternoon and have a leisurely drive

I’ll only take the local dive if I’m tired and want to crash out. I’ve regretted a few

For other occasions my criteria will vary, and it’s probably weighted by the number of stars a female companion will put up with, or I decide to treat them to
 
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On one occasion I messed up leaving the hotel.
Reception told us good luck as we left, the manager noticed they were all in branded team gear and asked where we were going

Instead of the usual about paintballing, I named the tournament.
The manager clearly checked out the league and the rest of the season had full price rooms only for those weekends, no advance pricing
 
Do you think they will get the same fixed sum from a hotel offering a room for 50 quid as they would a hotel offering a room for 250 quid.

Carrillion and PAYD could shit all over a contract and the MOD would still sign it.

**** me, you are not the quickest of cats when it comes to fraud, if someone had a MOD GPC card they have to justify their purchases, I know I was local procurement trained. If there had been a hurricane in 2018 in the Caribbean, I'd have been strolling around with a 10k card. Now, while there are opportunities to make a few bucks due to that trade, using the card for personal use is not one of them. Its certainly nothing like getting multiple flights all over the world for family members.

Who cares why we got it? (Herrick 8 by the way) it was impossible, they said so. Until it wasnt impossible. Its not even a hardship to do.
GPC was managed by people. People suffer from trust, naivety and apathy. I know of another clerk that was selling on flights to people he shouldn't have been associating with. He only got found out when something went wrong and "bad" people came looking for him. He was trusted to get on with his job by his CoC.
The Op bonus as it is now came out in 2010, I still remember the cheer as Cameron announced it then everyone walked off ignoring his speech.
 

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