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Deerstalking as a hobby, the why's and wherefores of training and certification

itchy300

Old-Salt
They're definitely the right choice for sheep farmers, very isolated and discretion is probably the way forward just from a anti theft Point of view.

Ref deer I have no experience however I can say they are definitely the correct tool for horses.

The biggest problem I have with them though is the modification to the pistol to reduce the capacity.
We had a revolver that had 4 chambers blocked leaving just 2, meaning the remaining chambers have 3 times more use than the manufacturer intended, I'm not in anyway qualified in metallurgy/gun smithing but it's like stopping the fuel flow to 4 cylinders on an engine and making the last 2 do more work.

I'm a great believer in using tools the way the people who designed and manufactured them intended them to be used.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
They're definitely the right choice for sheep farmers, very isolated and discretion is probably the way forward just from a anti theft Point of view.

Ref deer I have no experience however I can say they are definitely the correct tool for horses.

The biggest problem I have with them though is the modification to the pistol to reduce the capacity.
We had a revolver that had 4 chambers blocked leaving just 2, meaning the remaining chambers have 3 times more use than the manufacturer intended, I'm not in anyway qualified in metallurgy/gun smithing but it's like stopping the fuel flow to 4 cylinders on an engine and making the last 2 do more work.

I'm a great believer in using tools the way the people who designed and manufactured them intended them to be used.
The blocking cylinders isn't a legal requirement, just a condition. A few of the lads I know have resin plugs which wouldn't be impossible to remove and one lad has an unaltered ex Belgian Police 357. A few cases went through courts allowing stalkers to have pistols as opposed to revolvers. Yup the pistols have no limit on the mag proving its unnecessary to limit the revolver.
 
The blocking cylinders isn't a legal requirement, just a condition. A few of the lads I know have resin plugs which wouldn't be impossible to remove and one lad has an unaltered ex Belgian Police 357. A few cases went through courts allowing stalkers to have pistols as opposed to revolvers. Yup the pistols have no limit on the mag proving its unnecessary to limit the revolver.
I heard a tale about a stalker who was authorised to have a pistol for humane dispatch ,his new FAC turned up and stated restricted capacity so he appealed and said there was no law stating it was a requirement , after taking advice that certain county had to let him have unrestricted as they had already agreed he had good reason and was suitable to posses a pistol for HD , they were not happy about it one bit .
 
I heard a tale about a stalker who was authorised to have a pistol for humane dispatch ,his new FAC turned up and stated restricted capacity so he appealed and said there was no law stating it was a requirement , after taking advice that certain county had to let him have unrestricted as they had already agreed he had good reason and was suitable to posses a pistol for HD , they were not happy about it one bit .
I’ve seen it go to Court and the appellant won.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I’ve seen it go to Court and the appellant won.
If you think about it someone licensed to fire a pistol in humane despatch is licensed and therefore deemed not to be a risk, why put restrictions on them that serve no purpose other than to bugger them about?
Then again I suspect he would be watched for any infringements by his local force.
Years ago when I took up shooting again I used to shoot target rifles at a club and shotguns and air rifles when pest shooting.
One of the places I was looking after was on the edge of a large town, I used to call in and get a reference number when lamping to save any issues and then book in and out over the phone with HQ.
About a week after I bought another target rifle I was out lamping and was visited by the local fuzz blue lights and all.
This happened every night I went for about two months. I asked my FEO what I had done wrong and he said stop calling in and go anyway and then call in and don't go. They will get bored with it. He was right someone was being an arse and put up to it no doubt.
Pointless messing around. The ground wasn't suitable for anything rimfire or more than .410 so I didn't bother. I gave up the permission in the end, the sports club bought astro turf, saved me a lot of sleepless nights.
 
If you think about it someone licensed to fire a pistol in humane despatch is licensed and therefore deemed not to be a risk, why put restrictions on them that serve no purpose other than to bugger them about?
I've said before, I'm not particularly keen on banning objects. It's more the nut behind the trigger

The basis I've granted previously for multi shot, and one where the Court case was lost, is if he's deemed suitable for two rounds, why not six?
Then again I suspect he would be watched for any infringements by his local force.
In this case he was, but there you go
Years ago when I took up shooting again I used to shoot target rifles at a club and shotguns and air rifles when pest shooting.
One of the places I was looking after was on the edge of a large town, I used to call in and get a reference number when lamping to save any issues and then book in and out over the phone with HQ.
About a week after I bought another target rifle I was out lamping and was visited by the local fuzz blue lights and all.
This happened every night I went for about two months. I asked my FEO what I had done wrong and he said stop calling in and go anyway and then call in and don't go. They will get bored with it. He was right someone was being an arse and put up to it no doubt.
Pointless messing around. The ground wasn't suitable for anything rimfire or more than .410 so I didn't bother. I gave up the permission in the end, the sports club bought astro turf, saved me a lot of sleepless nights.
That sounds a bit stupid and a waste of resources tbh.

It's like checking firearm dealers. There can be any number of infringements, i's not dotted, t's not crossed. However, it also comes down to intent. Anyone can make an honest mistake. Some 'mistakes' are more concern than others imx.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
That sounds a bit stupid and a waste of resources tbh.
I'll bet you know who was force firearms manager back then too!

Nice to have some common agreement on this forum its been a divisive one for the last 3 years and at least shooters are standing together for once
 
Pistols/Revolvers have their place in humane dispatch but more frequently with fallen farm animals , often cattle / horses are in a shed and thrashing around when they need that shot , a hand gun with a low velocity bullet is a good way to dispatch them , with deer in the field if one has a badly placed bullet in its gut you really dont want to be walking up to it and loosing off a 308w into its head , I know of one case where a stalker did this and the round went through the deer , ricocheted off a rock and through his mates leg .
I had to dispatch a large fallow doe on my permission broken front leg rta.
A 17hmr at point blank behind eye was terminal. Very little chance of collateral damage. It was all I had apart from a machete.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I had to dispatch a large fallow doe on my permission broken front leg rta.
A 17hmr at point blank behind eye was terminal. Very little chance of collateral damage. It was all I had apart from a machete.
Anything is better than pain imho. I've happened across an ambulance that ploughed into a herd of fallow does. I despatched 3 on the verge, the others escaped through the hedges and I left the bodies on the verge so the female driver would be able to prove what she had driven into.
ETA I had to use a knife
 

mrboo

War Hero
Anything is better than pain imho. I've happened across an ambulance that ploughed into a herd of fallow does. I despatched 3 on the verge, the others escaped through the hedges and I left the bodies on the verge so the female driver would be able to prove what she had driven into.
ETA I had to use a knife
I had a similar thing with a woman hitting a red early one morning on a highland road . The only thing I had was a Philips screw driver . A quick push to the base of the scull and job done , I do think she was more upset with the dispatch than she was with hitting the thing in the first place,
 
D

Deleted 24582

Guest
MULIE.jpg
Antelope shot placement.jpg


Anybody else find themselves studying shot placement charts a few days before a stalk? I do this every year regardless and I do believe it does help engagement speed and speed up the decision making process.
 
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Anybody else find themselves studying shot placement charts a few days before a stalk? I do this every year regardless and I do believe it does help engagement speed and speed up the decision making process.

As Ugly said before, we are fortunate in the UK to have all year round stalking ( subject to many regulations ) and so shot placement is always current in the stalkers mind.
Notwithstanding that, being able to deliver a round to the chosen point of placement is checked extremely regularly.
 

Was just sent this by a mate and looks like they are suggesting the DSC1 (for all its flaws, and it has many), should become the ‘Industry Standard’ to pull the trigger at any deer unaccompanied (by someone with it) in Scotland.

It has been in the post for a while and is already necessary (or the meat hygiene part) for putting venison into the food chain other than personal consumption. I don’t think DSC1 should be the answer but that’s what is out there for the masses.

Some of the other suggestions seem quite sensible and probably overdue, some will have the traditional deer sector up in arms. Interesting times ahead... I wouldn’t like to be a deer in Scotland with the way things are going!!

Below is some of the recommendations ripped of the Scottish Roe stalking Facebook page:

The recently published report by the Deer Working Group – The management of wild deer in Scotland: Deer Working Group report - gov.scot - an independent group tasked by the Scottish Government to “review the existing statutory and non-statutory arrangements for the management of wild deer in Scotland”

Apparently 99 recommendations which will be looked at by the Scottish Government and although some may not be acted upon and others may take some time before they become law the ones highlighted by the LDNS are interesting.

End the use of lead bullets to shoot deer.

• Following trials, night sights should be permitted to shoot deer.

• Close seasons for female deer to be shortened and no close season for male deer.

• All out of season shooting to be carried out by those judged fit and competent.

• All who shoot deer (unaccompanied) should be on a register – DSC1 qualified.

• Greater prominence to be given to the role of wild deer with respect to Lyme disease.

• SNH to encourage complaints of unacceptable levels of damage by wild deer and to take action to reduce damage.

• SNH to take a more focused approach to agricultural damage by wild deer.

• More resource applied to addressing the rise in road traffic accidents involving deer.

• SNH to implement strategy to prevent further spread of fallow deer.

• SNH should maintain an active focus on likely routes by which muntjac could colonise Scotland.

• SNH should be implementing a strategic approach to limit dispersal of deer into peri-urban and urban areas.

• SNH adopt a more focused approach to deer in urban and peri-urban areas.

• SNH to increase the extent of Scotland covered by cull return system.

• SNH should avoid over-emphasising the need for collaborative groups for deer management and adopt a more flexible approach.

• SNH should allocate a significantly greater share of its resources to the management of wild deer outwith open hill deer range.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Don’t miss the bit recommending the use of shotguns
 
I stalk a small muntjack wood and the 308 is a bit much due to geography so I normally snipe them from outside the woods but this is a bit hit and miss to coin an inappropriate phrase. I suspect the semi automatic 12g with buckshot would be ideal. Probably.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
SNH demands the end of lead bullets but recommends using shotguns, wtf
 
As i live close to Lulworth Ranges, have DSC1 and time on my hands, I contacted Defense Deer Management to find out how to become part of the organisation.

Didn't even get a reply.

Getting the impression they don't want to let anyone else in their playground.
Medway, are you serving military or MOD CS? Drop me a PM if so, joining req are available through the site on Defence Gateway.
 

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