DEEPCUT

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#1

I note no less than 15,269 views on a Deepcut topic on these pages, and yet Adam Ingram tells anyone who will listen the "problem" is over?
 
#3
Yeah, and there's 27,901 views on the 'Following Through' thread. Trust me, quantity is no guarantee of quality on these boards.
 
#4
My point is that clearly still a lot of discussion around the four deaths to take place?

Adds to the argument for a Public Inquiry don't you think.


If not then we must accept this Government does not believe in accountability.

Now who was it that said: (words to the effect of)
"The difference between a wrong doing in a brutal regime and a wrongdoing in a democracy is that in a democracy we have accountability"






Of course that was TONY BLAIR wasn't it?
 
#5
Soldier_Why said:
Yeah, and there's 27,901 views on the 'Following Through' thread. Trust me, quantity is no guarantee of quality on these boards.
I bet if I posted a thread 'Bliar dead in freak car crash' I'd get zillions of hits - and posts because people would want to tell me what a tit I was.

Copious use of capitals and bold might get me even more....
 
#6
mrs_jones said:
My point is that clearly still a lot of discussion around the four deaths to take place?

Adds to the argument for a Public Inquiry don't you think.
Actually I agree that there should be a public inquiry. There should have been a public inquiry the moment that any of the families expressed a desire for one. The MOD has done itself an injustice by not appearing to be open and honest about any and all dealings regarding Deepcut.

BUT even if there were to be a PI now I still don't think certain individuals will gain the closure that they desire. Anything other than a vindication of their belief that these soldiers did not commit suicide will not be good enough for some of these people.

I found this:

Amnesty - Cheryl James

Since then, there have also been allegations that there had been 10 attempted suicides by young soldiers at Deepcut Barracks between the death of Pte Sean Benton in June 1995 and that of Pte Cheryl James in November of the same year. Ibid. The family of Pte Cheryl James told Amnesty International that they are in possession of Army documents corroborating the allegations concerning the 10 attempted suicides.
10 attempted suicides in 5 months! We are all by now well aware that there were serious failings at Deepcut - and it seems that these failings led to some seriously unhappy soldiers who felt that their only escape was to try and take their own lives. I do not condone what happened at Deepcut and those concerned should be held accountable for their actions. The perpetrators of those actions may well be described as just as well pulling the trigger that ended these young soldiers' lives but the suggestion that they literally did so is, I believe, not substantiated.
 

luke

War Hero
#7
Whilst I have no frame of reference having not been at deepcut 'pre-incidents', it is still a terrible place for young, iimpressionable soldiers to be
 
#8
luke said:
Whilst I have no frame of reference having not been at deepcut 'pre-incidents', it is still a terrible place for young, iimpressionable soldiers to be
Why?
 
#9
mrs_jones said:
My point is that clearly still a lot of discussion around the four deaths to take place?

Adds to the argument for a Public Inquiry don't you think.


If not then we must accept this Government does not believe in accountability.

Of course that was TONY BLAIR wasn't it?
Determining accountability is merely an output of a PI. The argument as to whether to hold a PI or not hinges on "is it in the national interest". You obviously think so, many don't, and probably the vast majority dont't care one way or the other.

PAW
 
#10
luke said:
Whilst I have no frame of reference having not been at deepcut 'pre-incidents', it is still a terrible place for young, iimpressionable soldiers to be
Any worse than say Catterick? Where there has been higher recorded suicides but no major media witch hunt, or any other army base with unexplained deaths?

What are the statistics of young people in the population or say students taking thier own lives. Its a sad fact of life that it happens.

Suicides or Death by gunshot wounds however is not that common, so attracts more publicity...

If the MoD closed Deepcut tomorrow, and moved the RLC to say Aldershot or Leconfield, would that culture change overnight?
 
#11
mrs_jones said:

I note no less than 15,269 views on a Deepcut topic on these pages
..and no way of knowing whether anyone is interested in the P-eye's slant on it, or watching Mr Swann dodging having to answer questions.

I can't help wondering if a lobbying group has heard of arrse through the press and started posting on here to gain more legitimacy
 
#12
I think you may be over-estimating the power of ARRSE (with due note of the BAFF campaign)
 
#13
I think somebody is
 
#14
luke said:
Whilst I have no frame of reference having not been at deepcut 'pre-incidents', it is still a terrible place for young, iimpressionable soldiers to be
Yes...correct, the various council estates, street corners and crack houses up and down the land are far better and safer place to be!

I'd rather condemn my child to the above than the constant, and heavily regulated supervision of care, recreation facilities, sport, healthy balanced diet, career development, educashun and of course pay received at Deepcut! NOT!!!!

Furthermore, whilst the death of a young person is terribly tragic there was only one person to blame, the individual that decided to take their life and pull their trigger! FACT!!!

No amount of blame shifting, investigations, conspiricies, (so-called self confessed) experts opinions, witch hunts etc will prove anything to the contrary.

Whilst i was at university, 4 people topped themselves in a 3 yr period. There was no Blake report, no amnesty internation enquirys, no investigative interests from many different and overseas agencies - we just accepted that these youngsters couldn't cope and had nowhere to turn to (INCLUDING THEIR PARENTS AND CLOSEST FRIENDS WHO DIDN'T SPOT THE WARNING SIGNS) and killed themselves.
 
#15
Why is every one still talking about deepcut old news what happen happen learn from it move on.

Yes there should be public investagation just to put this to rest.

There have been 23 deaths of recruits at Catterick Garrison since 1994. But you dont see catteick in the papper all the time just deepcut
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#16
Soldier_Why said:
Yeah, and there's 27,901 views on the 'Following Through' thread. Trust me, quantity is no guarantee of quality on these boards.
I beg to differ. The 'following through' thread had quality written all over it.

There was no agenda to it either. Two things that both threads didn't have in common.
 
#17
For Ingram to say this he is admitting there was a problem in the first place but nobody has expanded to say what the problem actually was/is.
My take on this is that during the amalgamation of the RAOC rct RPC ACC and so on there was a drawdown of their individual training organisations. When Deepcut was defined as the centralised RLC training centre manpower was required to staff it and guess where all the COs sent their no hope SHTIE. :(
mrs_jones said:

I note no less than 15,269 views on a Deepcut topic on these pages, and yet Adam Ingram tells anyone who will listen the "problem" is over?
 
#18
Dear Tytus_Barnowl

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:00 pm

YOU are a very shrewd bird, indeed, a very rare species, most observant – 10 out of 10.

Sincere regards

‘Franky’
 
#20
saxon13 said:
Dear Tytus_Barnowl

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:00 pm

YOU are a very shrewd bird, indeed, a very rare species, most observant – 10 out of 10.

Sincere regards

‘Franky’
Just a little outside an area of expertise here, unless of course he has served time at MCM Div and of course knows all about plotting an officers career and future postings.

It was remarked right from the point of the amalgamation that staffing levels for expected recruit levels was woefully inadequate.

I know, personally, that a number of the junior officers over that period were plotted in by MCM Div as they were non-graduate and therefore had a further 3 to 4 years before becomeing eligible for promotion to Captain. This of course then ensured continuity in post as a graduate officer would have provided 12 to 18 months in post before promotion and posting.

Strangely enough the CO of the Regiments these Junior officers came from had no involvement in the manning at Deepcut and could only add reccomendations on CR's to allow MCM Div to decide on suitability.

All a little in contradiction of the above posts I think. My experience is obviously based around the Officer side as opposed to Soldiers postings and of course my opinion is made with that caveat in mind.

Why is there a lot of 'hits' on this subject, well with people making it as contentious as it can be is it any surprise? That and the sheer number of people who have been through the place may add a little of interest to the subject.

It is without doubt time to give it a rest.

Mrs Jones, what do you hope to achieve with the resurrection of the topic again. Do you work or are you involved with the families of those concerned? Why does it suit you to keep bringing this back to the fore?
 
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