Deepcut Survivors, promotion conspiracy?

A

armadillo

Guest
#1
I have a couple of soldiers that went through Deepcut in the early nineties on my books, I have noticed something odd about their career progression since.

These guys are a long way behind the promotion curve despite being fit and capable soldiers. Most are excellent at what they do. So how come they have been passed over for promotion for so long and not reached their rank in a timely manner?

Is it because these guys were witness to the doctrine and mishandling at Deepcut, were some of these guys/girls deliberately slow tracked so that they get despondent at the army and leave, removing any embarrassing memories behind?

Or is it that APC at the time were inept and unsuitable for task during the nineties and mishandled career progression?

It was a pure coincidence that I found this unerring disparity. I would like to find out how many people were probably done over in this manner. Need more evidence so anyone RLC during 1993-95 that thinks they have been affected please sound out.

There are a lot of RLC 1993-1995 that are still full screws at this time. Luckily I was promoted after transferring to another arm phew!

Armadillo,
 
#2
'Kin hell!

How many people went through RLC depot in those years? And by finding 2 who, in your opinion only, at present deserve promotion, then there must be a conspiracy?!

Get your tin foil hat shaped better & report to the Badge for re education....
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#3
sorry the badge is still a lance jack.

at present count the figure is around the twenty mark, quite a lot have left after three years as private soldiers, a lot more have left after five years as private soldiers, there is a pattern forming.
 
#4
I'm inclined to agree re APC but the timeframe 1993-5 also coincides with the glut caused by amalgamation (a managerial disaster unequalled .......until someone gave Brown the keys to No 11 & No 10!).
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#5
Cheers Fingers, do you think that put back the new guys to the corps on the back foot for a number of years?
 
#11
I frankly doubt if the army could organise anything as complex as a conspiracy.
 
#12
Not really a conspiracy, as you say you all moved into the RLC, Options for Change put a lot more people in the same boat and a fair few from all cap badges ended up as 4-6 year Private soldiers from all different Depots.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
#13
sorry the badge is still a lance jack.

at present count the figure is around the twenty mark, quite a lot have left after three years as private soldiers, a lot more have left after five years as private soldiers, there is a pattern forming.
**** me, I left as a 9 year private, 7 and a half as ACC, 1 and a half as RLC, but then I was a bit of a **** whilst in :)
 
#14
I have a couple of soldiers that went through Deepcut in the early nineties on my books, I have noticed something odd about their career progression since.

These guys are a long way behind the promotion curve despite being fit and capable soldiers. Most are excellent at what they do. So how come they have been passed over for promotion for so long and not reached their rank in a timely manner?

Is it because these guys were witness to the doctrine and mishandling at Deepcut, were some of these guys/girls deliberately slow tracked so that they get despondent at the army and leave, removing any embarrassing memories behind?

Or is it that APC at the time were inept and unsuitable for task during the nineties and mishandled career progression?

It was a pure coincidence that I found this unerring disparity. I would like to find out how many people were probably done over in this manner. Need more evidence so anyone RLC during 1993-95 that thinks they have been affected please sound out.

There are a lot of RLC 1993-1995 that are still full screws at this time. Luckily I was promoted after transferring to another arm phew!

Armadillo,
Crikey, that is a whole mega-conspiracy theory you have there!
Where is the evidence and where is your research?

Even if you trawled through the promotion lists on Armynet to see when soldiers promote, you would not be able to gather enough information to reach an informed conclusion; the data isn't there.
Getting the data out of Glasgow, who will know, would be difficult, for many reasons!

My view on your theory is that the Army is a large organisation and the pyramidal structure sits on a huge base of private soldiers. Some will be promoted, others will not. Most soldiers, Loggies or not, only serve the 4 years and leave. IIRC, the vast majority of soldiers do not promote further than Cpl: there isn't the room above them.

But there is a large pool of soldiers who will not promote beyond Cpl and who will soldier on (sorry..) to the pension point. They are usually the Steady Eddies on whom the newly promoted SNCOs in a troop can rely. Nothing wrong with that, at all. Look around you in any front-line or training regiment. There will be a large number of older soldiers who survive to the bitter end, and are quite happy to do so.

'Twas ever thus. As a young thruster, I was constantly surprised by all the older NCOs around me who were not going anywhere. But they were doing their daily job and that was what mattered to them - and the system.

I can think of one other possible reason for there being a large number of older full-screws around. For most of the last 20 years, the Army has been under-manned and there has not been the pressure to remove soldiers who have reached a plateau in promotion terms. Look at the commitment bonuses, the terms of which are still being discussed on this board. Those bonuses were designed to retain soldiers... and now you are complaining? :)

Litotes
 
R

really?_fascinating

Guest
#15
He might have a point - I know loads of people who went through Deepcut in 93 - 95 period. Some of them are Lt Cols now, but some of them are still Majors - he might well be onto something here....especially as some of them have left the Army since 1993 and have NOT PROMOTED SINCE!!
 
#16
He might have a point - I know loads of people who went through Deepcut in 93 - 95 period. Some of them are Lt Cols now, but some of them are still Majors - he might well be onto something here....especially as some of them have left the Army since 1993 and have NOT PROMOTED SINCE!!
Only Lt Col......damn theres a need for X Files just incase there is more to it than meets the eye.

I think we need the media to look into why those who left after 4 years never were promoted from Mr to Lord in the past 15 years......wheres Scooby and the crew when you need him.
 
R

really?_fascinating

Guest
#17
Iron - I am available to be interviewed by Gillian Anderson and Daphne from Scooby Doo - but do not send that irritating dog round, or his ******** cousin.
 
#18
Crikey, that is a whole mega-conspiracy theory you have there!
Where is the evidence and where is your research?

Even if you trawled through the promotion lists on Armynet to see when soldiers promote, you would not be able to gather enough information to reach an informed conclusion; the data isn't there.
Getting the data out of Glasgow, who will know, would be difficult, for many reasons!

My view on your theory is that the Army is a large organisation and the pyramidal structure sits on a huge base of private soldiers. Some will be promoted, others will not. Most soldiers, Loggies or not, only serve the 4 years and leave. IIRC, the vast majority of soldiers do not promote further than Cpl: there isn't the room above them.

But there is a large pool of soldiers who will not promote beyond Cpl and who will soldier on (sorry..) to the pension point. They are usually the Steady Eddies on whom the newly promoted SNCOs in a troop can rely. Nothing wrong with that, at all. Look around you in any front-line or training regiment. There will be a large number of older soldiers who survive to the bitter end, and are quite happy to do so.

'Twas ever thus. As a young thruster, I was constantly surprised by all the older NCOs around me who were not going anywhere. But they were doing their daily job and that was what mattered to them - and the system.

I can think of one other possible reason for there being a large number of older full-screws around. For most of the last 20 years, the Army has been under-manned and there has not been the pressure to remove soldiers who have reached a plateau in promotion terms. Look at the commitment bonuses, the terms of which are still being discussed on this board. Those bonuses were designed to retain soldiers... and now you are complaining? :)

Litotes
Or just maybe they were (and are) crap?
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#19
Probably, crap. Litotes is the voice of reason here, however the amalgamation must have done something to soldiers careers. Also there is another underlying issue is ncos who peak and stay at rank. They are often treated badly by the system due to the fact they are Not progressively climbing the ladder.

I have had pms of others who have experienced mis management my hat goes of to soldiers that have peaked and not further advanced and also stuck with it.
 
#20
Amalgamation and options for change really fucked it up for a lot of us. Others really proffed and ended up as WO1 within a very short time.
 

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